Islam

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:

Zaki90 wrote:
The Muslims like me see Israel as a place of the people. Not a Zionist place. The people there have killed innocent Muslims.

Innocent people who let terrorists hide behind their skirts.

In any case, the Muslim Nations threw the first punch, and the Jews pushed them back. Since then, it's been back and forth bickering and warfare.

Muslims threw the first punch, but the Zionists spat at them first.

Really?
You honestly believe that an innocent person, like my cousins in the UAE, would let Terrorists seek refuge in their house. My family has taught me that if one disobeys the words of Quran, that he is not a Muslim. Even if he says he is. O


But if the Palistinians are so oppressed, why don't Egypt, Syria and Iran offer them refuge until they get a solution?
The answer: Because the refugees are useful political tools.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:

Zaki90 wrote:We do not want to have Zionists who think it is ok to kill Muslims ruling over the holy land of the 3 religions of God.

And we don't like the idea of Palistinians, Syrians, and Egyptians who think it's OK to wipe Israel off the map. Sorry, but it goes both ways.

We don't want the Zionist regime to be there. It makes the Holy Land owned by people who wish to kill those who worship the same god as you.

Zaki90 wrote:
Really?
You honestly believe that an innocent person, like my cousins in the UAE, would let Terrorists seek refuge in their house.

Look at Iraq, Zaki. Look at Somalia. Look at Gaza. It happens. These people will stand in front of insurgents so our troops won't fire. They will give AK-47 toting raiders free access to their homes and businesses.

Zaki90 wrote:My family has taught me that if one disobeys the words of Quran, that he is not a Muslim. Even if he says he is. O

Well, these people have a different view of what the Quran says, one that's way different from yours. My fight is not with you, but with them.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:But if the Palistinians are so oppressed, why don't Egypt, Syria and Iran offer them refuge until they get a solution?
The answer: Because the refugees are useful political tools.

Zaki90 wrote:We don't want the Zionist regime to be there. It makes the Holy Land owned by people who wish to kill those who worship the same god as you.

Question 1: Do we?
Because I seem to remember God saying not to add to the bible, and that no more prophets would come after Jesus. If we worship the same God, then he is infallible, and he would not have changed his mind. He would have known that he would send another prophet, just as he knew the exact year he would send Jesus.

Question 2: What gives the Jewish State legitimacy? What maintains the Status Quo?
The answer is simple. Violence. Even before displaced Jews emigrated there en masse, Arab leaders asked Adolf Hitler to extend the Final Solution to their lands.
But was there ever a Palistinian state?

Well, before the land was given to the Jews, it was owned by the Brits. And before that, it was the French. And so on and so forth, back to the Roman Empire. Now, I can sympathize with the Tibetans, who were a sovereign state for a millennium, but since the Palistinian State hasn't been a sovereign state in that time...

Now, you want to know how to free the Palistinians? Don't do it with rockets. Do it the way Martin Luther would want you to.

I have no problem with the religion, although, the people whom follow it are the ones who you might have a problem with.

I really don't care though, maybe a bit for the core values.

Zaki wrote:Atheism is not a religion.It is just people unable to accept there is a God. They just don't want to. They are ignorant.

You are hilarious!

I would love to believe in a god and an after life and live with nothing but glee, but unfortunately, that which is desired cannot always be true.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is, than to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring."

The principle of certainty harbors ignorance.

There is no helping ReconToaster, I would just give up if I were you.

Islam... I have nothign against the religion, but when followers of it are hell bent on killing others just because of their beliefs there is something fucked up with the whole thing.

Not all of them are like that.

People like Osama Bin Laden, or Mohamed Farrah Aidid use Islam as a tool, and a weapon.
They believe in it, but not to the same extent of their followers.
They use it to gain power, or wreck havock for their enemies.

KarskinSeath wrote:There is no helping ReconToaster, I would just give up if I were you.

Islam... I have nothign against the religion, but when followers of it are hell bent on killing others just because of their beliefs there is something fucked up with the whole thing.

How about followers who act as if they are superior to others, and that those below them are in need of being "saved"?

I find it almost painful that most of our religious members will not even be so reasonable as to admit to the possibility of their belief system not being correct. It is rare that you find someone so ignorant so as to think that there is absolutely no way that they could be wrong, yet the premise seems so prevalent on these boards.

No, I do not require help. I do not need convincing so that I may reach rapture. You condone someone who just called me an idiot for not submitting myself to the absolute belief that there is, doubtlessly, a god.

I am somewhat open to the idea of there being a god. I will not submit myself to the belief, as I have no real reason to, but I do not deny the small possibility. What I do doubtlessly deny is the premise that we as humans have somehow already acquired the secrets to our existence. The idea it ludicrous.

This is why I respect Rasq and Rot. While they have their beliefs, they are open to the possibility that they may in fact be wrong.

Um... when Shi'ites and Sunni's start killing each other, it makes me very wary of the religion.

When the religion raises people to hate a different race (I know several muslims, and they all harbor a hate for Jews. They wouldn't necessarily kill them... I don't think... but they still have a deep hatred for them), I have a problem with the religion.

When it has groups of radicals who are hell bent on killing nonbelievers, I have a problem with the religion.

I realize that a large part of those actions are instigated by extremist factions, but what they do still reflects back on Islam.

So, like Rasq, I have less of a problem with the religion, and more of a problem with the extremists.

PiEman wrote:Not all of them are like that.

People like Osama Bin Laden, or Mohamed Farrah Aidid use Islam as a tool, and a weapon.
They believe in it, but not to the same extent of their followers.
They use it to gain power, or wreck havock for their enemies.

Usama wasn't really using Islam as a tool, he genuinely hated Americans.

ReconToaster wrote:

KarskinSeath wrote:There is no helping ReconToaster, I would just give up if I were you.

Islam... I have nothign against the religion, but when followers of it are hell bent on killing others just because of their beliefs there is something fucked up with the whole thing.

How about followers who act as if they are superior to others, and that those below them are in need of being "saved"?

Hm... a common problem among Christians. Lots of people act like unbelievers are nothing, they are too full of pride to actually recognize that they should reach out with loving ahnds to those people. There are dozens of congs written by Christian artists regarding this topic.

ReconToaster wrote: I find it almost painful that most of our religious members will not even be so reasonable as to admit to the possibility of their belief system not being correct. It is rare that you find someone so ignorant so as to think that there is absolutely no way that they could be wrong, yet the premise seems so prevalent on these boards.

Well... it's difficult to explain this without sounding... I don't know... say you know the truth about something, you have infallible evidence of it, but the problem is, you can't show other people this evidence, they just don't see it. AFter becoming a Christian, you experience a drastic change in your life, and basically, you realize that you are following the truth. Or at least, that's what it was like in my case. What may seem like arrogance to you is more... I can't really describe it...

ReconToaster wrote: No, I do not require help. I do not need convincing so that I may reach rapture. You condone someone who just called me an idiot for not submitting myself to the absolute belief that there is, doubtlessly, a god.

No comment.

ReconToaster wrote: I am somewhat open to the idea of there being a god. I will not submit myself to the belief, as I have no real reason to, but I do not deny the small possibility. What I do doubtlessly deny is the premise that we as humans have somehow already acquired the secrets to our existence. The idea it ludicrous.

If you're somewhat open to the idea of God, you're several steps ahead of most Atheists. Humans didn't really acquire the secret to our creation. ADam and Eve, the first humans, walked with God, they knew Him, they knew that He created them. Their children knew God, though not as close, and so and so on, until the Bible was written as a document explaining how humans were created.

Most of my thoughts probably seem random or abstract, you'll have to excuse me, I'm physically and mentally exhausted.

Maginot Line wrote:

PiEman wrote:Not all of them are like that.

People like Osama Bin Laden, or Mohamed Farrah Aidid use Islam as a tool, and a weapon.
They believe in it, but not to the same extent of their followers.
They use it to gain power, or wreck havock for their enemies.

Usama wasn't really using Islam as a tool, he genuinely hated Americans.

Exactly, and he's using Islam as a weapon against us.

Maginot wrote:Hm... a common problem among Christians. Lots of people act like unbelievers are nothing, they are too full of pride to actually recognize that they should reach out with loving ahnds to those people.

That's exactly the mentality I was referring. You feel as if I'm below you, and that I need "help" and "nurturing" to reach the level of believing what you believe. The whole "I feel bad for you because you don't have god in your life" thing gets very annoying very fast.

Maginot wrote:Well... it's difficult to explain this without sounding... I don't know... say you know the truth about something, you have infallible evidence of it, but the problem is, you can't show other people this evidence, they just don't see it

Sounds frustrating, to have unlocked the secrets of the fourth, non material dimension, only to be dismissed by your peers.

Maginot wrote:AFter becoming a Christian, you experience a drastic change in your life, and basically, you realize that you are following the truth

And since he joined Scientology, Tom Cruise has never suffered from the common cold.

Maginot wrote:If you're somewhat open to the idea of God, you're several steps ahead of most Atheists.

I know a great many Atheists, none of them as radical as I, and none of them think that there is absolutely no possible way that there is a god. Atheists do not deny the possibility of a divine being, they simply do not submit themselves to believing in one without evidence or rational reason.

Maginot wrote:Most of my thoughts probably seem random or abstract, you'll have to excuse me, I'm physically and mentally exhausted.

Maintaining a cross-dimensional relationship must be hard on you.

ReconToaster wrote:

Maginot wrote:Hm... a common problem among Christians. Lots of people act like unbelievers are nothing, they are too full of pride to actually recognize that they should reach out with loving ahnds to those people.

That's exactly the mentality I was referring. You feel as if I'm below you, and that I need "help" and "nurturing" to reach the level of believing what you believe. The whole "I feel bad for you because you don't have god in your life" thing gets very annoying very fast.

I do not feel as if you're below me, at all. We're both on the same level.

Maginot wrote:Well... it's difficult to explain this without sounding... I don't know... say you know the truth about something, you have infallible evidence of it, but the problem is, you can't show other people this evidence, they just don't see it

ReconToaster wrote: Sounds frustrating, to have unlocked the secrets of the fourth, non material dimension, only to be dismissed by your peers.

It really is. Except, it's not really a secret, most people just ignore it.

Maginot wrote:AFter becoming a Christian, you experience a drastic change in your life, and basically, you realize that you are following the truth

ReconToaster wrote: And since he joined Scientology, Tom Cruise has never suffered from the common cold.

Interesting.

Maginot wrote:If you're somewhat open to the idea of God, you're several steps ahead of most Atheists.

ReconToaster wrote: I know a great many Atheists, none of them as radical as I, and none of them think that there is absolutely no possible way that there is a god. Atheists do not deny the possibility of a divine being, they simply do not submit themselves to believing in one without evidence or rational reason.

I meant to add 'that I know' at the end there. Most of the time they just tell me to 'fuck off' without my ever saying a word to them.

Maginot wrote:Most of my thoughts probably seem random or abstract, you'll have to excuse me, I'm physically and mentally exhausted.

ReconToaster wrote: Maintaining a cross-dimensional relationship must be hard on you.

Not really. It comes pretty easily.

Sparring with a black belt for 15 minutes in a row is rather trying though.

As I recall Zaki, the Jews have the longest standing right to the Holy Land, since the people living there before them were all pretty much wiped out. And, as Rasq pointed out, Palestine was never a sovereign nation, but rather a colony of some empire or another, from the Romans to the British. And I don't recall the Jews spitting on the Palestinians, either. The British sure as hell did, and I don't know how I stand on the British method of moving the Jews in, but that was the British, not the Jews, as can be seen in other examples of Britain's divide and abandon style used throughout the colonies, such as India. And, as Rasq has already pointed out, if the Muslims as a whole are so supportive of the Palestinians and their cause, why is Jordan the only nation that will let Palestinian refugees in? And don't pretend like there aren't some, even plenty of civilians out there willing to help terrorists. I remember a while back, it was all over the news about how, during a counter response to a terrorist Katyusha attack on Israeli civilians, a little Palestinian girl playing jump rope was killed. Answer me this. What the fuck was a little Palestinian girl doing playing jump rope while terrorists launched Katyusha rockets over the wall mere yards away? And, quite frankly, I don't recall the Jews as being overly aggressive against Palestinian civilians.

"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel."
-Benjamin Netanyahu

Hey Rot,
Big block of text is Big.

Rotaretilbo wrote:I believe other religions outside of Christendom (and even some within) are wrong, persay, but not necessarily evil. I would not doubt that Satan has a hand in inspiring certain religions, but I do not believe the followers to have anything but the best intentions, in most cases. I mean, Satanists are probably pretty evil, but I don't believe that the average Muslim is inherently evil, nor that the foundation of Islam is evil. One must remember, kslidz, that Satan is the master of deception, and if his creations are obviously evil, they will be unpopular, but if they appear to be good, they will be more popular. Satan doesn't need false religions like Islam to be evil in order to damn followers to Hell. The followers, no matter how good they try to be, cannot achieve perfection, and thus, without Jesus, are going to Hell, and as long as they think otherwise, Satan has them right where he wants them.

i am sorry if i insiuted something else

but i did not mean the people who follow other freligions just the religions themselves (that includes aetheism) because they distract from the holyiness of God and Jesus and take away or add onto what saves a person and lets them into heaven
anything (not person) that takes from Jesus is evil

people who do are no more evil than anyother person