Christianity vs Islam

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:32 am

Zaki90 wrote:Here are some beliefs in Christianity that I think are wrong.

1.God will judge you by your deeds. Why is the entrance to Heaven through Jesus?

This basically says Ghanda will not go to Heaven.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Our righteousnesses are but filthy rags in the sight of God. So, yes, Ghandi is likely not going to Heaven.

Zaki90 wrote:2.
NEWSFLASH:
Jesus is not God. God is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God(In your beliefs). Not God.

The Old Testament foretells the coming of the Messiah. Is God the Messiah? No!

Is Jesus the Messiah? Yes!

If God was Jesus, then God would be the Messiah. The Old Testament says nothing of God being the Messiah. The Old Testament says nothing of God being killed on the cross. The Old Testament says nothing of God being born by a virgin.

The Old Testament says the Messiah will do these. The Messiah which is Jesus.

This using logic proves there that Jesus and God are different people. 2 different souls.



Jesus even prays to God. In John 17:1, Jesus prays to God.

Would God pray to God?
No!

Genesis 1 wrote:26Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Furthermore, throughout the Old Testament, if you read in the original Hebrew, there are multiple times where pronouns, adjectives, or verbs are assigned plural connotation. This was lost in translation, because we don't have two different types of plural designators in English, while Hebrew does. In fact, in Hebrew, the use of the word God or LORD in the Old Testament is almost always given plural connotation. In fact, LORD is always referred to in the plural.

So, if the many references to the God and Jesus being one and the same in the New Testament aren't enough, you can always contend with all of the Old Testament references that were lost in translation, and even those that made it through.

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Toaster on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:43 am

Zaki wrote:What is wrong with lying to myself! I need to lye to myself everyday in order from keeping myself from suicide. Religion provides a reason for living. Religion is going to help us succeed. Come on. Conform with us. Don't you wanna help other people!

Why should I require religion to help others? I'm perfectly capable of exhibiting moral behavior without a book telling me what's right and what's wrong. I don't need the threat of going to hell, or the reward of going to heaven to keep me from acting immorally either. If you need these things just to be a good person, you're not a very good person.


I also haven't killed myself yet...
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:52 am

actually, its been proven that being "religious" actually doesn't increase your chance of being nice to others

in fact, a study showed that those that were atheist/agnostic were more likely to give some change to a man on the streets than the "religious"
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Angatar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:52 am

ReconToaster wrote:
Zaki wrote:What is wrong with lying to myself! I need to lye to myself everyday in order from keeping myself from suicide. Religion provides a reason for living. Religion is going to help us succeed. Come on. Conform with us. Don't you wanna help other people!

Why should I require religion to help others? I'm perfectly capable of exhibiting moral behavior without a book telling me what's right and what's wrong. I don't need the threat of going to hell, or the reward of going to heaven to keep me from acting immorally either. If you need these things just to be a good person, you're not a very good person.


I also haven't killed myself yet...
If you don't have anything 'wrong' to compare to, how do you know you are doing 'good'?
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:55 am

Angatar wrote:
If you don't have anything 'wrong' to compare to, how do you know you are doing 'good'?

That makes so little rational sense that I think my head might implode.
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Angatar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:56 am

KristallNacht wrote:
Angatar wrote:
If you don't have anything 'wrong' to compare to, how do you know you are doing 'good'?

That makes so little rational sense that I think my head might implode.
That's what she said.
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:00 am

srsly though....wtf?
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Angatar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:02 am

KristallNacht wrote:srsly though....wtf?
Oh boy! Kiddies!

Okay, back on topic.
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:32 am

i am on topic.

trying to get you to make some sense.
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Angatar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:33 am

no u
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:36 am

.....no srsly, take what you said and make it have some amount of credibility
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Angatar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:59 am

I like your dad.
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by kslidz on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:41 am

KristallNacht wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:1.I've never understood why Jesus (your Son of God) would kill himself for Christians. Someone so magnificent would allow himself to be killed for just to save Christians from sin.

Jesus didn't die for us, he died because he defied the ruling power. Also, Jesus was a normal man. His 'holiness' was embellished when the bible was rewritten 300 years after he died.


funny

you really have no idea what you are talking about do you

all the gospels can be traced to a time of before the end of the first century

and almost all the other new testament books were written before that in between 40 AD and 90 AD

and those books also talk about Jesus

EDIT and to what Ang said, it's actually quite the opposite
How can you know bad if there is no good?


Last edited by kslidz on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Nocbl2 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:43 am

Didnt on dude make a gospel like 500 years later or something?
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by kslidz on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:44 am

not one thats in the Bible

all of them were written with in 100 years of Jesus' death

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Nocbl2 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:44 am

K
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by CivBase on Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:51 am

*sigh* I'm not going to do this here. If you do wish to continue this, PM me.

ReconToaster wrote:
Civ wrote:You stay out of this. Yours is just as irrational.

My what? My beliefs? Last I checked, I've never stated much of any finite beliefs. I don't know how the world was created and neither do you. Stop lying to yourself. Certainty breeds ignorance and you sir are ignorant.
So I'm ignorant because I choose a side to believe in while you're not because you don't?

ReconToaster wrote:I don't think that there's a god, but I don't completely rule out the possibility. I don't fully subscribe to macro evolution or the big bang theory either, but it's the best answer I can think of.

You, on the other hand, hold what you call "faith" in something which you cannot possibly find any conclusive evidence to support. Even still, the most "solid" bit of evidence that you have given me, for the support of "intelligent design," is that planets are round...
It's no different than Christianity. You just tell yourself that it's less likely, even though you have no evidence to say it's less likely, and then say that there is more evidence for evolution than there is for ID, which there isn't. For every bit of so-called evidence for evolution, there is just as much evidence against it; just look at the fossil record! Neither theory has a shred of proof to it, and the only reason either exists is because there is no evidence against either. However, I can say that the idea of evolution was just the random spawn of some uneducated kid with no scientific background, while ID has been a theory that has been accepted for as far back as human history goes.

ReconToaster wrote:My beliefs are not irrational, as I have no finite beliefs.
And that makes you more rational?

Which is worse, having an old, torn up shirt, or no shirt at all?


What I was mad about, though, is that this is not an Atheism vs Christianity vs Islam thread, so why even post?

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by TNine on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:14 pm

What about Relavations?
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Nocbl2 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:19 pm

Revalations
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by TNine on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:23 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:Revalations
I care.
Was that made before 300 AD?
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Nocbl2 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:24 pm

Yes.
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Zaki90 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:46 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Genesis 1 wrote:26Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Furthermore, throughout the Old Testament, if you read in the original Hebrew, there are multiple times where pronouns, adjectives, or verbs are assigned plural connotation. This was lost in translation, because we don't have two different types of plural designators in English, while Hebrew does. In fact, in Hebrew, the use of the word God or LORD in the Old Testament is almost always given plural connotation. In fact, LORD is always referred to in the plural.

I believe that the Hebrew word for God is Yahweh. And when God says "Let us" he is referring to all the creations around him. It actually never points out that there is another God. If this verse was used in the plural form of God. Then there are 3 gods. But the then it says he. In the singular way, three times.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
(R) male and female he created them.



Rotaretilbo wrote:So, if the many references to the God and Jesus being one and the same in the New Testament aren't enough, you can always contend with all of the Old Testament references that were lost in translation, and even those that made it through.

But that would make no sense. God is not the Messiah. Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus prays to God. This is why the Bible is unreliable. It controversial to itself.

One time it says God is a He. Then they say God is Jesus. Then they say Jesus prays to God. Then they say God is a spirit and has no gender. Then they say pork is wrong. Then they say it is right. It's like someone is trying to correct mistakes that others made. Only making it worse and worse.

That is why the Quran is so reliable. It is the word of God. That is what Quran means. The Quran is written by God.

The Bible is not. I don't see how Christians find that the Quran is unreliable.

You can't ignore parts of the Bible.

Choose one!

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by CivBase on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:59 pm

I dunno zaki. I choose to take the Bible literally, and I find few troubles with it. The Bible, despite what most think, is not just a laid out list of rules.

God is not a physical being, so He is not a he or a she (reminds me of my neighbors shirt that says Hii saved me and has a picture of God an a Nintendo mii). We just refer to Him as He so as to not treat Him as an it.

Jesus is God's son, but Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are the Holy Trinity, which is one. They are one, though each perform their own role.

Pork is not wrong. Where has it ever said pork is wrong? You're confusing the silly church tradition of not eating meat during lent.

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by TNine on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:20 pm

Perhaps God changes his mind sometimes?

Seriously, he had a drastic change from Old Testament to New Testament, it's not surprising he has different views.
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Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Zaki90 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:30 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Angatar wrote:
If you don't have anything 'wrong' to compare to, how do you know you are doing 'good'?

That makes so little rational sense that I think my head might implode.

Actually, that makes more sense than the Big Bang.

You need a moral standard set in order to know if you are doing something good or bad.

Example: the SATs scores are put into sections. Below Average, Average, Above Average

Without an Average score set, how could you be Below Average. There is no standard set for you to look at and say this is Below Average or Above Average.


ReconToaster wrote:
Zaki wrote:What is wrong with lying to myself! I need to lye to myself everyday in order from keeping myself from suicide. Religion provides a reason for living. Religion is going to help us succeed. Come on. Conform with us. Don't you wanna help other people!

Why should I require religion to help others? I'm perfectly capable of exhibiting moral behavior without a book telling me what's right and what's wrong. I don't need the threat of going to hell, or the reward of going to heaven to keep me from acting immorally either. If you need these things just to be a good person, you're not a very good person.


I also haven't killed myself yet...

Humanity needs fear to stay under control. If I wasn't scared of Hell, I would be out drunk at a nightclub. Probably doing LSD, Cocaine, huffing, Marijuana, Reefer, Viagra, and many other drugs out there.

But the thing is. If there was no God, you would be worthless. I am happy there is a God. God adds meaning and justice to our lives. So go ahead, don't believe in God, but know one thing. God is the greatest idea mankind has ever made up.( In your eyes )


Rot, can you make the Abrahamic Religons vs. Atheism or Existence of God Thread. Or I will go right ahead in doing so.


Forgot this...

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Re: Christianity vs Islam

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