Existence of God

I suppose the difference is more along the lines of atheists = don't think God is likely. Agnostics = think they're both equally likely.


If that's the case, I'm going with the former.

^well defined!

Calling myself agnostic would be a little to soft...

This thread will live on, even though the debate is over, only in a forum..

Cheese, you give people way too much credit. :p

Cheese wrote:
About a year ago, some religious blokes came to my door and said something along the lines of humans are bad by default. They lost me right then and there. I like people. Sure, they aren't perfect, but who is? (rhetorical:P)

Norman Borlaug.

For me, I started asking myself this question when I was in 6th grade. I was going through a ton of shit and simply wasn't seeing anything to prove his existence. Of course, I can't really ask that question today since the very day I started questioning was the very day I found out my name literally meant "God is real".

As far as things are logical, most all atheists that I know are not at all open to the idea of God, simply because they automatically classified him as a myth or fairy tale such as Santa Claus. I also find that the majority of these people believe this because they think they are educated and ahead of the mob. Get this, I also find that almost all atheists believe that there is a force that controls the universe. Let them ask themselves, is it more logical for this force to be conscious or not?

First off, I consider science to be flawed and unreliable for many reasons. I will depend on it for physical purposes but in the debate concerning the existence of a higher power I will not base any evidence on it nor will I accept any evidence based on it.

Concerning the church, I believe that it is a good thing to be involved with and worship with other Christians. I believe that God means for us to function as a single entity, for it says it in the Bible. I also believe that it isn't a good idea to base your ideas and beliefs off the beliefs of others, because not only are there people out there that obviously don't get it(in my point of view anyways) but Christianity is meant to be a relationship between you and the one who made you, and your knowledge will come from him if you are listening.

This is my perspective on religion in a nutshell I suppose.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Cheese, you give people way too much credit. :p

Ok, I'll give you that one

But I still think the majority are decent.

I see a reason. If God does exist, you're going to hell. Am I seriously the only one that sees this?

CivBase wrote:I see a reason. If God does exist, you're going to hell. Am I seriously the only one that sees this?

Didn't you say that's one of the reasons you didn't follow the church? If you're a good person it shouldn't matter if you believe something different. Otherwise, if every person in history would get into heaven simply by picking the right religion, then the odds of getting in would still be billions to one - and that's if everyone who picked the right religion got in, which obviously is not the case.

'I'm sorry... the correct answer was Mormon. Mor-mon...'

'Awww...'

But if God doesn't exist (and I devote my life to Him), you lost out on your only existence.

No. I don't follow the chruch because of them trying to add their own little restrictions wherever they please. But, you're not getting into heaven if you don't believe in it.

Perhaps I will have lost out on my only existence... but then, what's the point of existing? That's a risk I'm willing to take.

CivBase wrote:I see a reason. If God does exist, you're going to hell. Am I seriously the only one that sees this?

You aren't the first person to think of that.

It's called "Pascal's Wager"

(further proof everything anyone ever thinks has been thought before)

KristallNacht wrote:

CivBase wrote:I see a reason. If God does exist, you're going to hell. Am I seriously the only one that sees this?

You aren't the first person to think of that.

It's called "Pascal's Wager"

(further proof everything anyone ever thinks has been thought before)

Yerp.

>you're not getting into heaven if you don't believe in it.

What if I've hypothetically never heard of it or been raised in a strong... err... viking environment? BY THOR'S HAMMER!!

>Perhaps I will have lost out on my only existence... but then, what's the point of existing?

So do you think everything before eternity is pointless? Joy, love, art, friendship, knowledge, compassion, Halo? As I'm sure I've said - I like this world. It has KFC.

CivBase wrote:I see a reason. If God does exist, you're going to hell. Am I seriously the only one that sees this?

What if you're Muslim? Does not the Quran say that only Muslims go to heaven? Why do you chose Christianity over Islam?

Your argument is weak, and a lame excuse for believing in something. "Believe it... just in case."

I'd rather maintain my integrity.

Either way, one cannot simply chose to believe in something. Even if I wanted to, I could not just "choose" to believe in god. My mind is far too rational to make such a blind assumption and submit to faith. You act as if I simply don't like the idea of a god, or an after life. I would be thrilled if it turned out that I will live forever, and never REALLY die. That would be awesome. Unfortunately, I have no reason to believe that, and I can't just tell myself that it's true.

What if I came up to you one day and said "I am your God, and you must give unto me all that you own or you will suffer an eternity in HELL!!!"

Would you give it all up... just in case?

It seems that the fact that all the "events" of the bible occurred thousands of year ago, really helps it to seem realistic to you. The disconnect makes it seem less absurd. That, and the fact that it was probably injected into you from a very young age...

Civ wrote:>Perhaps I will have lost out on my only existence... but then, what's the point of existing?

And what's the point of existing eternally? Helping others exist eternally? At its root, everything is pointless. Get over yourself and enjoy it while it lasts. All the more reassurance to the statement that religion is no more than a comforting assumption, designed to make people feel arrogantly important.

Cheese wrote:>you're not getting into heaven if you don't believe in it.

What if I've hypothetically never heard of it or been raised in a strong... err... viking environment? BY THOR'S HAMMER!!

Then you'll just go to hell for lying.

Cheese wrote:>Perhaps I will have lost out on my only existence... but then, what's the point of existing?

So do you think everything before eternity is pointless? Joy, love, art, friendship, knowledge, compassion, Halo? As I'm sure I've said - I like this world. It has KFC.

Yes, it is all pointless without a hope for an afterlife. We are born, a molecule that multiplies constantly. We live, a butch of molecules and atoms moving around, doing their thing, which means that we as people are no more than vessels for these molecules, a sort of communistic government devoid of corruption where the only things that are done are for the good of the body (cells), which thus means that consciousness is no more than a willingness to survive. And then we die, we go back into the dirt and the partials are recycled into new life.

ReconToaster wrote:What if you're Muslim? Does not the Quran say that only Muslims go to heaven? Why do you chose Christianity over Islam?

Why do I choose Christianity? Because that's how I was raised to believe and that's the one I choose to go with. Sure, believe in Islam if you want, but at least you have a chance at a preferable afterlife.

ReconToaster wrote:Your argument is weak, and a lame excuse for believing in something. "Believe it... just in case."

An excuse? Now, where did I say that this is why I believe in Christianity? I'm simply pointing out a reason, nothing more.

However, when faced with this reason, why would you stay atheistic? What good does integrity do you? I'm just putting some things up to discuss here.

ReconToaster wrote:Either way, one cannot simply chose to believe in something. Even if I wanted to, I could not just "choose" to believe in god. My mind is far too rational to make such a blind assumption and submit to faith.

No, you couldn't, because you already have forced yourself into believing that God is irrational, which is why you have the assumption that not choosing something is most rational.

ReconToaster wrote:You act as if I simply don't like the idea of a god, or an after life. I would be thrilled if it turned out that I will live forever, and never REALLY die.

Not when you find out you're going to hell

ReconToaster wrote:That would be awesome. Unfortunately, I have no reason to believe that, and I can't just tell myself that it's true.

That's not my problem, nor is it the problem of any other religious person.

ReconToaster wrote:What if I came up to you one day and said "I am your God, and you must give unto me all that you own or you will suffer an eternity in HELL!!!"

Would you give it all up... just in case?

No, for the same reasons I don't submit to other religions. You're trying to make it seem as though because there are different beliefs, that none can be right. Also, these religions go back much further than any of us can remember, unlike your statement.

ReconToaster wrote:It seems that the fact that all the "events" of the bible occurred thousands of year ago, really helps it to seem realistic to you. The disconnect makes it seem less absurd. That, and the fact that it was probably injected into you from a very young age...

Funny how the same exact thing is done with evolution.

ReconToaster wrote:And what's the point of existing eternally? Helping others exist eternally? At its root, everything is pointless.

So as to not experience infinite torment. Torment on this world is relatively light and will eventually end, but the same can't be said for hell.

ReconToaster wrote:Get over yourself and enjoy it while it lasts.

Yes, because I'm so trying to get others to convert to Christians and spend their lives at Church. You struck first this time.

ReconToaster wrote:All the more reassurance to the statement that religion is no more than a comforting assumption, designed to make people feel arrogantly important.

If that's what you choose to believe. I choose to believe in God. After all, what bad has come of it? You act like I waste my life worshiping God - spending every second praying - which we all know is not true, else I wouldn't be here.