Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Angatar on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:37 pm

Zaki90 wrote:
Angatar wrote:No, not really. The Japanese would have fought without the Emporer.

Why?
If you were in the military and your captain died, would your entire company surrendur?

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by KrAzY on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:38 pm

one because they would ahve been majorly pissed off that we killed their "god emperor"... two because someone else would ahev just risen into power... used the death of the emperor as motivation to continue fighting... and three... because they were conditioned as a society to fear Americans. to be captured was thought less honorable and a much more horrific way to exsist than suicide or killing of american troops.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Zaki90 on Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:08 pm

KrAzY wrote:one because they would ahve been majorly pissed off that we killed their "god emperor"... two because someone else would ahev just risen into power... used the death of the emperor as motivation to continue fighting... and three... because they were conditioned as a society to fear Americans. to be captured was thought less honorable and a much more horrific way to exsist than suicide or killing of american troops.

But we didn't only get the emperor, we got all of Toyko.

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:40 am

um, how have none of you stated that Tokyo had already been burnt to the ground by incendiaries?

Tokyo, being a nearl yall wooden city, was easily destroyed by incendiary bombs. In fact, the incendiary bombing campaigns on Tokyo claimed more lives than the nukes on Nagasaki and Hiroshima (not sure if thats both COMBINED or both INDIVIDUALLY, just quoting military channel)
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Ringleader on Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:02 am

located on the former site of Edo Castle in the heart of Tokyo. Earlier emperors resided in Kyoto for nearly eleven centuries.

I guess he was protected, or his house must have been made out of bricks.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Zaki90 on Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:55 pm

KristallNacht wrote:um, how have none of you stated that Tokyo had already been burnt to the ground by incendiaries?

Tokyo, being a nearl yall wooden city, was easily destroyed by incendiary bombs. In fact, the incendiary bombing campaigns on Tokyo claimed more lives than the nukes on Nagasaki and Hiroshima (not sure if thats both COMBINED or both INDIVIDUALLY, just quoting military channel)

Only areas. Not the entire thing. Also, the bombing helped persuade Hiroshima into peace with the Allies.And there were still people in Tokyo at the time. A couple of million actually.[1]

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by CivBase on Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:26 am

Why is this still going?

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by BBJynne on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:12 am

I love how this topic somehow turned into another Japan thread

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Gauz on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:57 am

The Japanese would never surrender because the Emporer is taken or killed, they would fight until every last one of them has died.

Like it was already said, they have a high image of honor, and won't be willing to give up.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by BBJynne on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:02 am

But then the Japanese came to America to impluve their Engrish.

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Gauz on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:31 am

Okay..
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:08 pm

Zaki90 wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:Algebra has saved more than it has killed.
So has E=mc^2. By ending World War Two, it saved twelve million lives. By preventing World War Three, it saved one hundred million lives.
If we have a nuclear war that kills everyone, who cares if it prevented 100 million lives.[/quote]
Which cannot happen. MAD, Massive Retaliation.
The people who are most likely to start a nuclear war are the ones that we have a vested interest in stopping. It is entirely impossible for such despots to start such a war.

Zaki90 wrote:

Strangely enough, nobody ever takes Nostradamus's prophesies and says "This is what's going to happen!" It's always applied in retrospect.
Proof:
KristallNacht wrote:On the Winter Solstice in the year 2012, all civilization will come to an end.
period.
Nobody has applied his prophesies in advance to a event that has actually happened.

Zaki90 wrote:Without algebra, everything you have stated would have never existed.
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:And all of those can be credited to algebra.
With that logic, all of this and algebra can be credited to the caveman who learned to count on his fingers.
Cavemen did linear indeterminate equations, quadratic equations, second order indeterminate equations and equations with multiple variables all in their hands?
No, but your argument was that Einstein could not have done what he did without Eucleid. My point was that Eucleid could not have done what he did without cavemen working out basic arithmetic. It's equally valid.

Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:That makes no sense.

MAD let more people have more nukes.
No, MAD just led to more nukes in the hands of the same parties.
Nuclear proliferation is what leads to more people having more nukes.

Is this why Russia have 20,000 nukes now?-
No. MAD is why Russia, an early player and a world power, has 20,000 nukes. Nuclear proliferation is why North Korea and Iran have nukes.

Zaki90 wrote:
Why did we test the nuke in New Mexico before nuking Japan? We knew the power.
No. We knew that we had a sizeable weapon on our hands. Would it fizzle? Would cascade reaction take place?

Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:I thought that they only wanted to use 1. Why have a backup?
Because all experience up to that point indicated that the Japanese do not surrender. For further reference, read up on Iwo Jima.

But the scientists said that they only wanted to use 1.
No. They protested the use AFTER they dropped Little Boy. We already had more built by then. And enough were willing to keep working, because the safety of the free world depended on a strong arsenal.

Zaki90 wrote:
Also, we might have needed to teach the Soviet Union a thing or two.

That's smart. Nuke the Russians who have over a million troops serving.
And who couldn't fight against such a weapon.
It would only have been used if they attacked first.

Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:Global communication and satellites wouldn't be impossible. Just would not make much sense.
Meaning they would be extremely impractical, and we'd still be using long-range radio towers for communication.

I meant that satellites that aren't synchronized with Earth time would be kinda confusing. Why would we be using long-range radio towers for global communication.
Because that is what we were going to use until a certain man named Arthur C. Clarke came up with the idea of using satellites in orbit to communicate with far-flung countries and armies.

Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:How exactly did Einstein save us all?
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:Algebra has saved more than it has killed.
So has E=mc^2. By ending World War Two, it saved twelve million lives. By preventing World War Three, it saved one hundred million lives.
[/quote]

By causing a nuclear apocalypse he will have kill us all. [/quote]
We could be killed by a pandemic, or a nanotech release, or a meteorite. Keep things in perspective.

Zaki90 wrote:

Zaki90 wrote:German scientists were planning to build the nuke going on Einstein's principle.
Most of what Einstein contributed was his famous formula. It still required the work of teams of scientists several years to see if the principle underlying the bomb (Fast fission) was even a possibility.

Answer me this. If Einstein never existed, would we have nuclear weapons?
Yes, as a matter of fact, we would.
Other scientists were working on the same stuff he did. But he did so much in so little time, that's why he's so amazing. And nobody would have thought of General Relativity for at least a hundred years.


Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:
I believe that an innocent civilian is more important than any solider.
Heinleinism: Because a soldier in a volunteer army is willing to sacrifice his life for the principles embodied by his country, his life is worth more than a civilian who doesn't join.
In any case, one civilian is worth 53 soldiers? With what logic?

A solider is not innocent. He or she has tried to end the life of another man. It doesn't matter who that man is.
That soldier has decided to place his life and his well-being between his country and his values and his family, and the enemy who would destroy it. Self-sacrifice, Zaki. The idea isn't to cause deaths, but to prevent more.

Zaki90 wrote:Innocence on the other hand has never tried do anything. Just trying to make a living.
No man is innocent. If no man would conquer another, soldiers and war would be unnecessary.

Zaki90 wrote:The innocent is not more important. He is simply less guilty. No one wants him alive. But no one doesn't want him alive.
Al-Queda wants westerners dead. Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map. North Korea wants more land, more power, more resources. Russia and China have been enemies since the 50's. Men are required to keep the peace.

Zaki90 wrote:I'm sure if you are a soldier and you killed somebody, that that man will wish you were never born.
I'm sure that if I was a soldier, I would kill only those I have a reason to. They're probably aiming a Kalashnikov at me, or something similarly nasty.

Zaki90 wrote:
Ringleader wrote:Wasn't the emperor living in or near Tokyo?

Bombing it would only kill the only chance of a surrender.

The Emporer was the head of the snake. Cut the head. The Snake dies.
Actually, that's Hydra. It looks a lot like a snake, but it ain't.
The Emperor was a figurehead, but Tojo was in charge, and everyone down on to the Majors in the army and navy were dedicated to Nippon supremacy.

It would be like if the SS made up all the officers of the Wehrmarcht. They never would have stopped until Himmler or whoever was in charge ordered them to stand down. Even then, many of them would have kept fighting.

BBJynne wrote:But then the Japanese came to America to impluve their Engrish.
And learn how to fight us.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Ringleader on Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:19 pm

This argument is kind of pointless, a device or physics equation is deadly as people make it, I find zaki's reasoning ever so slightly flawed though.

a hydra? I'm pretty sure the expression is "cutting the head off of the snake" to be fair, I'm sure cutting the head off of anything with a head will kill it. A hydra, non mythological one, is like a tentacled collection of cells, with no head, removing one of its tentacles wont do anything.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Gauz on Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:06 pm

Ringleader wrote:This argument is kind of pointless

Then you don't know the people of Crimson Flame.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:18 pm

Ringleader wrote:This argument is kind of pointless, a device or physics equation is deadly as people make it, I find zaki's reasoning ever so slightly flawed though.
"Ever so slightly?"
He's the one who is arguing that "America is Evil" and "Einstein is Satan Incarnate."

Ringleader wrote:a hydra? I'm pretty sure the expression is "cutting the head off of the snake" to be fair, I'm sure cutting the head off of anything with a head will kill it. A hydra, non mythological one, is like a tentacled collection of cells, with no head, removing one of its tentacles wont do anything.
Yes, the expression is "Cut the head off of the snake." But my point was that the Nippon Empire was more like the MYTHICAL Hydra. You know, that one that would sprout two more heads when one was cut off.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Ringleader on Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:26 pm

Well, American intervention in the middle east did essentially turn it into a powder keg (CIA, 1950s). The Sultan was actually not that bad back then.


Last edited by Ringleader on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:51 am

Ringleader wrote:Well, American "intervention" in the middle east did essentially turn it into a powder keg (CIA, 1950s). The Sultan was actually not that bad back then.
I'll agree that America screwed the place up, but I would like to ask that you remove the quotation marks from "Intervention". If you'll look, you'd find that Iran's next-door-neighbor was the USSR. Now, if you think that the USSR would be willing to leave an oil-rich neighbor that had broken away from Britain alone, be my guest, but please don't get elected to a position of foreign policy making.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Ringleader on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:10 pm

Ok, but then they would oust the sultan and get someone to favor them more, still intervention, but we did so there you have it.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:31 pm

Better us than them.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:35 pm

I had a dream last night about nuclear apocalypse.

It was weird.....cause the bombs dropped close enough so we could see it but far enough that the shockwave and effects took a long time to reach us and people were like "oh...look at that, the bombs dropped" and carried on with their lives
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by TNine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:53 pm

KristallNacht wrote:I had a dream last night about nuclear apocalypse.

It was weird.....cause the bombs dropped close enough so we could see it but far enough that the shockwave and effects took a long time to reach us and people were like "oh...look at that, the bombs dropped" and carried on with their lives
I had a dream like that too. I was Iraq in a protected college community, and we constatntly joked about nuclear war. As i was overlooking the landscape, i pointed to location and said "i bet the bomb will explode right there". i won the bet two seconds later. We went, scared, into the basement, then i woke up.

I remember it pretty vividly. Feel like it actually happened.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:55 pm

you were Iraq?

How did that feel? to be a country and all?
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by Cheese on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:13 pm

Ermm... me too actually. Only it was in a Dutch city and the explosion looked like a meteor colliding with something in the air. Which probably stemmed from the documentary of that happening in Siberia I had watched only minutes before (sleep non permitting) but I'm pretty sure it means we're all going to die.

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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by TNine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:16 pm

KristallNacht wrote:you were Iraq?

How did that feel? to be a country and all?
...wierd...i was like "whoa dude i'm land, government, and an entire population". Then i got nuked.
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:21 pm

wait...when did you guys have these dreams? lol
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Re: Winter Solstice 2012: End of the World?

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