Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by noir on Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:39 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Don't have the bandwidth to watch that, will get around to it later. IF it's Loose Change, I am just going to post a video response.

noir wrote:Not to use Maddox's idea too heavily, but; If the government can pull of 9/11
Which they can't. Not in a million years.

noir wrote:they can sure as hell keep it in the dark.
Now, riddle me this:
If the Gov't can blow up three towers in plain sight, buy off every aviation/demolition/mechanical/civil engineer in the civilized world, and pay off everyone who was involved, why the HELL can't they yank a video down off the internet thirty seconds after it's been posted? Why can't they keep tabs on anybody who starts asking around about 9-11? Why didn't those two nutjobs who filmed "Loose change" die of a car accident, or a drug overdose, before uploading the film onto the internet?

The answer: The Government isn't doing anything of the sort.

noir wrote:The bigger thing i've never been able to get my head round is why you voted Bush back in after he presided the biggest defence failure in american history
Maybe because 9-11 WASN'T a defense failure. NOTHING in the system was designed to prevent such an attack. A plane switches off the transponder over the east coast, you need to go through FIVE THOUSAND identical blips on the radar to track it down. What REALLY doesn't help is the fact that the air traffic control equipment dates back to WWII tech.

Bush stepped in, rallied the country, kicked in the Taliban's teeth, and did a smashing good job around the time of the 2004 election, thank you very much.

Dude, what the fuck? You got that quote from Maddox's bestpageintheuniverse. That was what I was pointing in the direction of, jesus, listen.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:41 pm

KristallNacht wrote:The video merely concerns a part of the NSA that may be tasked with destroying possible connections and maintaining info.

NOT some overwhelming "OMG GOVERNMENT WAS BEHIND 9/11!!!! RAWR".

Which is why i asked if you watched the video.

The point being why would the government want to destroy connections with itself and 9/11 if no such connections actually exist.

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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:01 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
The point being why would the government want to destroy connections with itself and 9/11 if no such connections actually exist.

Maybe its not directly 9/11. It's the fucking NSA. They can kinda do anything to cover up anything.

Still, in terms of the pentagon attack, there are plenty of bits that don't add up. In terms of the towers, thats pretty much confirmed.

and Rot you basically just in that sentence provided a bit of proof to that there is SOMETHING.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by tiny tim on Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:54 pm

What bits are you speaking of NT?

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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:09 pm

its been discussed in another thread.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:31 pm

NT wrote:Still, in terms of the pentagon attack, there are plenty of bits that don't add up. In terms of the towers, thats pretty much confirmed.

O RLY?
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:44 pm

....yeah....

wait, what?
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:49 pm

KristallNacht wrote:....yeah....

wait, what?

Are you saying that the official story is logistically 'confirmed' to be true, or that the official story is not true?
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:57 pm

that it is true.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:35 pm

KristallNacht wrote:that it is true.

Well I disagree that it has been proven.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:15 am

KristallNacht wrote:Maybe its not directly 9/11. It's the fucking NSA. They can kinda do anything to cover up anything.

I doubt there is any suppressing going on, except the suppression of leaks.

KristallNacht wrote:Still, in terms of the pentagon attack, there are plenty of bits that don't add up. In terms of the towers, thats pretty much confirmed.

As someone who used to buy in to all of that Pentagon, trust me, it was a plane.

KristallNacht wrote:and Rot you basically just in that sentence provided a bit of proof to that there is SOMETHING.

Not really, because I am also inferring that there is no secret group that is secretly throwing journalists that they don't like (except the one blabbing off and stealing all their classified data, of course) and trying to destroy evidence connecting the government to 9/11.

ReconToaster wrote:Well I disagree that it has been proven.

Don't tell me that you buy into all that crap!? You and I disagree on practically everything, but you've shown yourself to be far more logical than that. If you can't understand how I can have faith in God, how can you possibly buy into the truthers!? If I need to, I'll get out that point by point rebuttal to Loose Change that originally inspired multi quoting for me.

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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by BBJynne on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:29 am

Let's just crash a plane into the pentagon

then it REALLY WILL have been a plane



but we have to do it on off-hours so we don't kill people

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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Ringleader on Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:43 pm

I don't understand what your arguing, if they did cover it up, you wouldn't know or hear anything about it, and it would be existent, if they didn't cover it up, then you would also not not know anything about it, and it would not be existent, but you wouldn't know either way.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:47 pm

KristallNacht wrote:but you and Rasq both incinuated I supported the belief being discussed in the video, and Rasq made a horrible connection between the taliban and Iraq, and ignored the fact that the person i argued against earlier was saying there was no reason not to go to war after 9/11.
You never differentiated between Iraq and Afghanistan. I barely associate Iraq with 9-11, because I know we didn't go to war with Iraq because of 9-11.

KristallNacht wrote:The video merely concerns a part of the NSA that may be tasked with destroying possible connections and maintaining info.

NOT some overwhelming "OMG GOVERNMENT WAS BEHIND 9/11!!!! RAWR".
The video barely mentioned 9-11. The thread's title was "Gov't group supressing 9/11 connections?". You are a known 'truther'. I put two and two together and got four... although it could easily have been three, five, or anything in between.

KristallNacht wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:
The point being why would the government want to destroy connections with itself and 9/11 if no such connections actually exist.
and Rot you basically just in that sentence provided a bit of proof to that there is SOMETHING.
Gah...
Only if you assume, with 100% certainty, that the US government is suppressing 9/11 evidence.
If you approach it without any preconceptions, you realize that either the Government is destroying evidence or it isn't.

noir wrote:Dude, what the fuck? You got that quote from Maddox's bestpageintheuniverse. That was what I was pointing in the direction of, jesus, listen.
Oh...
I ran across that page years ago, and forgot what the page was... I remembered the arguments though... and I used them.

Sorry, deep misunderstanding here.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:59 pm

Rot wrote:Don't tell me that you buy into all that crap!? You and I disagree on practically everything, but you've shown yourself to be far more logical than that. If you can't understand how I can have faith in God, how can you possibly buy into the truthers!?

Well it's certainly not a matter of faith. I'm not really decided with my views on 9/11, but there are a lot of things about it that just seem... not right. Trust me, I hate myself when I start actually considering some of those EXTREME conspiracy theories... but I can't just ignore the out of place elements. It's not something I take lightly in coming to conclusions about.

I certainly don't doubt that the towers got hit by air planes, but beyond that... I don't know.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:04 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
As someone who used to buy in to all of that Pentagon, trust me, it was a plane.

never said it wasn't a plane lol

but even the video the pentagon released suggests it wasn't a 747.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:29 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Rot wrote:Don't tell me that you buy into all that crap!? You and I disagree on practically everything, but you've shown yourself to be far more logical than that. If you can't understand how I can have faith in God, how can you possibly buy into the truthers!?

Well it's certainly not a matter of faith. I'm not really decided with my views on 9/11, but there are a lot of things about it that just seem... not right. Trust me, I hate myself when I start actually considering some of those EXTREME conspiracy theories... but I can't just ignore the out of place elements. It's not something I take lightly in coming to conclusions about.

I certainly don't doubt that the towers got hit by air planes, but beyond that... I don't know.
Well, ask away, and I'll try my best to answer your questions.

And is that an Orion nuclear propulsion craft you have for an avatar?
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:52 pm

Rasq wrote:Well, ask away, and I'll try my best to answer your questions.

Eh, as kind and helpful as that sounds, I don't really want to get into it. I would still like to pick up that magazine that popular mechanics did on it. I've read the official investigation reports for the collapse of the twin towers and WTC 7... but I don't know. I don't have a degree in structural engineering... so I'm not sure that my opinion is very valid at all anyways. I'd like to do more 'research.' Still, the whole "no steel building before 9/11 has EVER gone down due to fire" statement echoes in my head. The pentagon is a whole separate cluster-fuck of fishiness.

Rasq wrote:And is that an Orion nuclear propulsion craft you have for an avatar?

Why yes... yes it is. If only funding existed for space travel ey?
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:43 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Rasq wrote:Well, ask away, and I'll try my best to answer your questions.

Eh, as kind and helpful as that sounds, I don't really want to get into it. I would still like to pick up that magazine that popular mechanics did on it. I've read the official investigation reports for the collapse of the twin towers and WTC 7... but I don't know. I don't have a degree in structural engineering... so I'm not sure that my opinion is very valid at all anyways. I'd like to do more 'research.' Still, the whole "no steel building before 9/11 has EVER gone down due to fire" statement echoes in my head. The pentagon is a whole separate cluster-fuck of fishiness.
The Twin Towers are the first steel towers in the world to be destroyed by fire, but they are also the only towers in the world to have been hit by 747-sized airplanes, dowsed from impact floor to lobby in burning kerosene, and left burning for two hours. In addition, they are one of a few, if not the only, hanging steel structures to burn that long.

Most of the article, if not all, can be found herehere.

ReconToaster wrote:
Rasq wrote:And is that an Orion nuclear propulsion craft you have for an avatar?

Why yes... yes it is. If only funding existed for space travel ey?
Well, before we build one of those, we need a space elevator on Guam (Close to the Equator, not volcanically active) and a massive railgun in the Arizona desert, to place hardware into orbit. Then we can get to work on space travel... But I'll just be happy to walk on the dark side of the moon.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:16 am

Rasq wrote:Well, before we build one of those, we need a space elevator on Guam (Close to the Equator, not volcanically active) and a massive railgun in the Arizona desert, to place hardware into orbit. Then we can get to work on space travel... But I'll just be happy to walk on the dark side of the moon.

Nah, all we really need is an efficient, re-usable spacecraft built for the sole purpose of delivering cargo to an orbital platform. A space elevator is, in terms of human engineering... a long way away.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:42 am

ReconToaster wrote:
Rasq wrote:Well, before we build one of those, we need a space elevator on Guam (Close to the Equator, not volcanically active) and a massive railgun in the Arizona desert, to place hardware into orbit. Then we can get to work on space travel... But I'll just be happy to walk on the dark side of the moon.

Nah, all we really need is an efficient, re-usable spacecraft built for the sole purpose of delivering cargo to an orbital platform. A space elevator is, in terms of human engineering... a long way away.
A space elevator is as closer than you think. The biggest problem is cheap manufacture of carbon fiber, and possibly a fuel source. After that, it's just funding.

But for now, the rail/gauss gun in the desert is a more practical idea.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:15 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
A space elevator is as closer than you think. The biggest problem is cheap manufacture of carbon fiber, and possibly a fuel source. After that, it's just funding.But for now, the rail/gauss gun in the desert is a more practical idea.

In the end, would the price for getting cargo into orbit even be any less costly than using a dedicated, re-usable fleet of cargo craft?
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Ringleader on Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:26 am

Have you seen the Natgeo or Discover show that broke it down, and explained what happened?
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:00 am

ReconToaster wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
A space elevator is as closer than you think. The biggest problem is cheap manufacture of carbon fiber, and possibly a fuel source. After that, it's just funding.But for now, the rail/gauss gun in the desert is a more practical idea.

In the end, would the price for getting cargo into orbit even be any less costly than using a dedicated, re-usable fleet of cargo craft?
I assume it would. Besides the savings on fuel, you have it on the ground at all times, so it is easier and safer to fix when something goes wrong. Reusable shuttles will be used for humans, but the cannon should have WAY more capacity for hardware than a fleet of shuttles.
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Re: Government group supressing 9/11 connections?

Post by Toaster on Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:08 am

Ringleader wrote:Have you seen the Natgeo or Discover show that broke it down, and explained what happened?

No, I heard about it watching old episodes of 'Cosmos,' and I've read about it on NASA's website.



Anyways rasq, while a space elevator would be great, it's really not a necessity for an Orion starship. The original plan was to just nuke it off of Earth's surface in the middle of the Arizona desert. Anyways, why couldn't we just get it into orbit with conventional chemical rockets, and blast off the nukes once it's out of orbit? Is it just a matter of efficiency? Obviously these things are big... and thus pretty hard to get into space...
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