Re: KN's Guide to Fixing the Country

by PiEdude on Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 am

Now btw guys, I won't be on for about another week, so can someone else argue in my place?

It's not that hard.
At this point it's more of an internet pissing contest than a debate.
Both sides just keep coming up with counter points until they're both exhausted and just start slinging shit, and/or the thread just dies a slow death and sinks to the bottom of the Debate section.

by **Rotaretilbo** on Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:58 am

PiEman wrote:It's not that hard.
At this point it's more of an internet pissing contest than a debate.
Both sides just keep coming up with counter points until they're both exhausted and just start slinging shit, and/or the thread just dies a slow death and sinks to the bottom of the Debate section.

Well ya. That's what happens when Pie, who is incapable of forming points, argues with NT, who is incapable of not insulting whoever he is arguing with. Razz

by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:59 am

PiEman wrote:
It'll be more common place because pot wouldn't be illegal.

just like legalizing alcohol increased consumption and death related to alcohol?

PiEman wrote:No, it has something to do with junkies robbing liquor stores.

uh huh....but right now, do all, or even a majority, of people that do pot rob liquor stores?

PiEman wrote:
The wage level would still be lower.

Obviously people who are desperate for jobs will have no choice.

Wage level being lower also reduces the prices of everything. and people desperate for jobs will at least HAVE a job in this case, assuming any companies even went down that low.

if minimum wage was eliminated and the real minimum was free following supply and demand, EVERYONE that wants a job would have a job, and there would be no empty positions.

by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:03 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:

The only change I'd note here would be to have a tax on Marijuana. Personally, I'm against it, because Marijuana, side effects aside, has like twice as much tar as regular cigarettes, but if we do legalize it, we might as well charge loads for it, help pay off the deficit.

well, legalizing would also reduce lots of government costs, in terms of imprisonment of non violent drug offenders as well as free up money to fight against the REAL problem drugs.

and there are actually pretty much zero side effects to marijuana, as opposed to smoking anything. its actually safer than cigarettes and alcohol on pretty much every level.

as well as Marijuana pretty much being the single most useful plant on the face of the earth.

rot wrote:

Or just get rid of it altogether in the first place. The problem with minimum wage that people don't seem to realize is that when a company is forced to pay its workers more, it either cuts benefits or lays off employees to compensate. If jobs don't offer fair wages, they won't attract employees, so a minimum really isn't particularly necessary.

pretty much. plus raising minimum wages eventually causes everything to cost more. my main issue with destroying it immediately would cause a serious economic flux that could be avoided by steadily lowering the minimum

rot wrote:My main concern is the lack of addressing the issue of immigration, especially of the illegal sort.

well, removing minimum wage pretty much stops illegals from being able to get jobs, and the voucher system pretty much stops them from getting and education as well..

by **Rotaretilbo** on Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:22 am

True, but it doesn't prevent them from leeching off our emergency medical stuff.

by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:25 am

realistically though, getting a job and education is the main thing they want.

by **Rasq'uire'laskar** on Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:34 am

Well, as nice as the minimum wage thing seems, I'm vehemently against it.

Micky D's ain't the only place that pays minimum wage. A lot of peripheral industries pay minimum wage too, like food processing plants.

High schoolers and borderhoppers aren't the only ones filling those jobs out. In food processing plants and construction agencies (The reliable ones), family men work there, as well as college students.

We need that money, and cutting the minimum wage isn't going to bring costs down enough for us.

Second:
No to legalizing marijuana.
NT says it will help law enforcement. I have a better solution.
There is a heroin vaccine out there that will cause your body to attack the active ingredients in heroin. You don't get high, you get sick.

Seems like a similar system would work for marijuana. I'm not saying we need to vaccinate everybody, just the repeat offenders.

Second, GMOs allow scientists to eliminate certain chemicals from plants.
I'd like to know how easy it would be to eliminate the active ingredients in marijuana from the hemp plant. Then, our farmers could grow that wonderful plant and use it for what it needs to be used for: Paper and linseed oil.

by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:08 am

rasq, they already have industrial hemp.

you can't get high off of it, and it is still illegal to grow in the united states.

and everyone can agree that heroin is inherently bad for you, you'd be hard pressed to really get overwhelming support for the belief that marijuana is more harm than good.

rasq, dropping minimum wage reduces the costs of EVERYTHING. besides, places like food processing plants would still stay above the lowest paid jobs because people are less likely to want to do them.

by YouCurse on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:06 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:1. Legalize Marijuana

The only change I'd note here would be to have a tax on Marijuana. Personally, I'm against it, because Marijuana, side effects aside, has like twice as much tar as regular cigarettes, but if we do legalize it, we might as well charge loads for it, help pay off the deficit.

I was thinking a long these lines too.
I always thought that Cigarettes were good for tax, until I heard on the news that the amount of tax money that is received via Cigarettes is less than the amount that is used in health care for smokers.
And Marijuana would pretty much just be worse.

by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:11 am

Ukurse wrote:
And Marijuana would pretty much just be worse.

how?

Marijuana users don't need health care. They have marijuana which is shown to be useful in treatment of over 200 different medical conditions.

ntm Marijuana doesn't cause long cancer, kill brain cells, or do any harm to the body. Unlike cigarettes and alcohol.

Here's some statistics for you.

Tylenol kills more people EACH DAY than Marijuana has EVER KILLED in all of recorded history.

by **Rasq'uire'laskar** on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:25 am

KristallNacht wrote:
Ukurse wrote:
And Marijuana would pretty much just be worse.

how?

Marijuana is useful in treating PAIN.
In addition, marijuana contains twice the amount of tar as tobacco. Whatever way you take it in, tobacco is less harmful.

by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:34 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Marijuana is useful in treating PAIN.
In addition, marijuana contains twice the amount of tar as tobacco. Whatever way you take it in, tobacco is less harmful.

Marijuana can also subdue other effects that aren't just pain. If you watch The Union: The Business Behind Getting High they have an interview with a man with multiple sclerosis who could barely talk or sit still from the near seizure like effects of his condition. After smoking a bit, he was able to remain relatively still and talk without a severe stutter.

tobacco used in cigarettes is fertilized with radioactive fertilizer, making cigarettes radioactive, and thus causing lung cancer.

Cigarettes also have nicotine, making cigarettes addictive.

While marijuana use can become habitual, a long time constant user taken off of marijuana won't suffer any withdrawals. This fact makes cigarettes more dangerous.

by **Rotaretilbo** on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:38 am

First of all, I doubt your statistic, because only about 200 people die a year due to Tylenol overdosing. That is to say, less than one person dies each day from Tylenol. So, what you have basically stated is that Marijuana has never killed anyone ever.

And are you really going to tell me that tobacco causes lung cancer due to being radioactive, rather than the whole breathing smoke thing?

by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:44 am

[quote="Rotaretilbo"]

Rotaretilbo wrote:So, what you have basically stated is that Marijuana has never killed anyone ever.

thats exactly what i'm saying.

that being said tylenol kills more than 450 a year with a few thousand hospitalized.

Rotaretilbo wrote:And are you really going to tell me that tobacco causes lung cancer due to being radioactive, rather than the whole breathing smoke thing?

To cause cancer it has to be radioactive. you seriously didn't know that?

by **Rotaretilbo** on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:58 am

KristallNacht wrote:thats exactly what i'm saying.

that being said tylenol kills more than 450 a year with a few thousand hospitalized.

So if that's what you meant, why not simply say that marijuana has never killed anyone ever, rather than making an off hand comparison to an overthecounter drug often used to commit suicide?

KristallNacht wrote:To cause cancer it has to be radioactive. you seriously didn't know that?

So you're telling me that all tobacco has always been grown with radioactive fertilizers, and all marijuana has always been grown without radioactive fertilizers? For some strange reason, I find that hard to believe.

good?