Rapture

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Rapture

Post by Offensive Bias on Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:07 pm

Okay, this is spanning from a CB discussion. To escape events like Global warming, and the rising sea levels, someone proposed living underwater. In something like Rapture from Bioshock. Although the idea is good, I personally think it wouldn't work.
Discuss, I will add my feedback later.
Please put below if you are against it or for it, and why please.
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Re: Rapture

Post by Ascendant Justice on Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:15 pm

Or you know we could just expand to other planets and set up colonies on Mars and have mass hydroponics facilities stationed on the moon with an advanced ADS for some food production.

^ also spanning from a CB discussion.

I know it may sound stupid but it might have a chance at working...

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The underwater thing may SOUND like a good idea but personally I think that claustrophobia (sp?) would be an issue amongst the residents. I can also see things like sea creatures and lack of natural sunlight becoming an issue along with the potential of the residents having some psychological problems.
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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:17 pm

Objectivley Bias wrote:Okay, this is spanning from a CB discussion. To escape events like Global warming, and the rising sea levels, someone proposed living underwater. In something like Rapture from Bioshock. Although the idea is good, I personally think it wouldn't work.
Discuss, I will add my feedback later.
Please put below if you are against it or for it, and why please.

No.

The reason Rapture flourished was because of it's freedom. Freedom from government and religion. A world completely run by everyone simultaneously. But, people need a reason to live. A reason for why. Some people want someone to control them. This is why Rapture fell. Because it was too free. Not enough freedom means pressure.

And an underwater world is much harder to stop gangs.

See, if Antarctica completely melts. There is still land there. So the next place should be Antarctica, then the Moon. And if water is such a problem, then why do we not send water to Mars.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Gauz on Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:17 pm

Zaki we're not talking about escaping government or freedom, we're talking about other problems.




I'd have to do more research before I got a conclusion, because i'm sure it has its positives and negatives.
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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:25 pm

Gauz wrote:Zaki we're not talking about escaping government or freedom, we're talking about other problems.




I'd have to do more research before I got a conclusion, because i'm sure it has its positives and negatives.

How Rapture is governed should be the first item that is looked at.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:33 pm

Well, aside from the tricky bit of actually building a safe underwater colony with enough sun lamps to keep everybody happy, I'd say that it would be easier to build geodesic domes on the surface. Anyhow, you'd have major problems keeping your water supply separate from sea water.

Sea creatures, anyway, wouldn't be a major problem.
But I'm intrigued... What if you double-strengthened an oil tanker hull, capsized it, and built from there?
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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:54 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Well, aside from the tricky bit of actually building a safe underwater colony with enough sun lamps to keep everybody happy, I'd say that it would be easier to build geodesic domes on the surface. Anyhow, you'd have major problems keeping your water supply separate from sea water.

Sea creatures, anyway, wouldn't be a major problem.
But I'm intrigued... What if you double-strengthened an oil tanker hull, capsized it, and built from there?

Oil tankers...

Good idea. No bad side except if there were enemies.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Ukurse on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:33 am

I would be so fucking scared all the time, living that far underwater.
I have to major fears:
Bees, as I have never been stun by one, they are just so intimidating.
And Submarines, It is partiality Claustrophobia, and the fact I hate going deep into water like lakes and stuff.
And I assume that being in an underwater City 24/7 would be only worse than being in a sub.

TBH I think it is stupid, and that you not even being serious
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Re: Rapture

Post by Vigil on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:02 am

Thanks a lot there Ukurse.

Well since I proposed it, I suppose I should add some light on the matter eh?

Well for power, you could obviously use hydro electric dams to generate the electricty needed, though I will admit that isn't the best solution as it may not generate enough elecricity to support a sprawling underwater metropolis.

The Oil tanker sounds like a good place to start.

As for claustrophobia, I can understand that could be a problem, espically in regards to submarines and other underwater craft, but Raputre was pretty open, espiecally in the gardens. I'm sure you could have a few councillors to help them with the issue.

Rapture failed due to it's freedom, which is something that wouldn't happen in my hypothetical city, as it would be not where as lose in idology. It would probably be a democracy like we have today, or a dictatorship.

As for gangs, while they would a pain to track down and contain in an underwater city but there is an easy solution. Close of that area of the city where they operate and drown them. A bit drastic I know, but it would definately make them think twice before trying any thing.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:36 am

Ukurse wrote:I would be so fucking scared all the time, living that far underwater.
I have to major fears:
Bees, as I have never been stun by one, they are just so intimidating.
And Submarines, It is partiality Claustrophobia, and the fact I hate going deep into water like lakes and stuff.
And I assume that being in an underwater City 24/7 would be only worse than being in a sub.

TBH I think it is stupid, and that you not even being serious

What's wrong with submarines. They're hard, long, narrow, and filled with sea men.

Don't worry, when the evacuations start, we will surely leave you and everyone like you behind.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Dud Doodoo on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:49 am

We already have a plan for an island nation, backed by LP.

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Re: Rapture

Post by BBJynne on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:54 am

While ya'll go underwater, me and the faithful shall inherit the surface.
Imagine the massive tracks of unused land and resources available for us... glorious.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Dud Doodoo on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:56 am

And the wenches.

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Re: Rapture

Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:21 pm


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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:31 pm

Vigil wrote:

Well for power, you could obviously use hydro electric dams to generate the electricty needed, though I will admit that isn't the best solution as it may not generate enough elecricity to support a sprawling underwater metropolis.

That, or we could just have giant oil tankers getting sunlight. And seeing we are at the bottom of the ocean, geothermal would also be great.

Vigil wrote:Rapture failed due to it's freedom, which is something that wouldn't happen in my hypothetical city, as it would be not where as lose in idology. It would probably be a democracy like we have today, or a dictatorship.

Rapture failed because of it had gotten rid of religion. Religion is not easy to get rid of. That's were why the smuggling and cults started. It was only a matter of time before someone wanted complete control.

Vigil wrote:As for gangs, while they would a pain to track down and contain in an underwater city but there is an easy solution. Close of that area of the city where they operate and drown them. A bit drastic I know, but it would definately make them think twice before trying any thing.

As for the tracking, tracking devices could easily be made. Bad thing is that all of this would be done secretly, and a simply override of the doors and water breaching systems could cause things to haywire. Hacking will be an everyday thing.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Vigil on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:39 pm

Zaki90 wrote:
Vigil wrote:

Well for power, you could obviously use hydro electric dams to generate the electricty needed, though I will admit that isn't the best solution as it may not generate enough elecricity to support a sprawling underwater metropolis.

That, or we could just have giant oil tankers getting sunlight. And seeing we are at the bottom of the ocean, geothermal would also be great.

Geothermic vents would be a good source I guess, if we were that deep, help I beat you could get some Solar energy if angled it correctly.
Vigil wrote:Rapture failed due to it's freedom, which is something that wouldn't happen in my hypothetical city, as it would be not where as lose in idology. It would probably be a democracy like we have today, or a dictatorship.

Rapture failed because of it had gotten rid of religion. Religion is not easy to get rid of. That's were why the smuggling and cults started. It was only a matter of time before someone wanted complete control.

No reason to get rid of religion here.
Vigil wrote:As for gangs, while they would a pain to track down and contain in an underwater city but there is an easy solution. Close of that area of the city where they operate and drown them. A bit drastic I know, but it would definately make them think twice before trying any thing.

As for the tracking, tracking devices could easily be made. Bad thing is that all of this would be done secretly, and a simply override of the doors and water breaching systems could cause things to haywire. Hacking will be an everyday thing.

Tracking them wouldn't be too difficult, but Hacking would be a major problem, unless they were locked with bioscanners, even then the system isn't without it's flaws.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:13 pm

Vigil wrote:
Geothermic vents would be a good source I guess, if we were that deep, help I beat you could get some Solar energy if angled it correctly.

I ran through the game real quick. They use geothermal energy from underwater volcanoes.

Vigil wrote:No reason to get rid of religion here.

Then we extremism and gay people and homophobes all in one place.

Vigil wrote: Tracking them wouldn't be too difficult, but Hacking would be a major problem, unless they were locked with bioscanners, even then the system isn't without it's flaws.

So basically no automated turrets.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:52 pm

Question? Why would you have ports that let in seawater in the first place? Just have the pods able to hermetically seal off, blocking off air.

Gangs... Well, there's always security cameras, pressure pads, and motion detectors.

I would suggest building close to the surface so water pressure won't be an insurmountable problem, but far enough away that the tides and weather won't bother you.
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Next Step

Post by Tylertlat on Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:49 pm

Underwater seems to be the next step for colonization. It has the advantages of being close to civilvation, so if anything goes wrong it could be salvaged/evaculated. The materials are delivered with rather than against gravity. Once they get there, however, problems we would face in extra-earthly situations (food production in an artificial enviroment, construction of that enviroment, isolation, pressure, ect...) would be faced, serving as proof-of-concept models for when we do leave earth.

BTW, i'd suggest the use of current and tidal generaters for the production of electricity, since we're(G.E. at least) already putting them in the water to get power for land. And why would gangs be more significant underwater?


Last edited by Tylertlat on Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : improper form of 'evaculate')
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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:30 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Question? Why would you have ports that let in seawater in the first place? Just have the pods able to hermetically seal off, blocking off air.

Gangs... Well, there's always security cameras, pressure pads, and motion detectors.

I would suggest building close to the surface so water pressure won't be an insurmountable problem, but far enough away that the tides and weather won't bother you.

Security cameras can't do shit. In fact, they help if they get hacked. Pressure pads will only set off alarms if someone steps on it with in this case won't stop a gang from hiding weapons.

Motion detectors also, won't stop a gang from hiding weapons. Motion detectors pick up everyone.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Tylertlat on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:36 pm

Since you're creating a new enviroment and neccesarily control who's pressent(any mean of transportation to said enviroment having a high initial cost, and thats allowing for a public harbor) why are gangs such an issue.

And even if gangs do form, why are they a greater problem underwater than they are on the surface?
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Re: Rapture

Post by Zaki90 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:44 pm

Tylertlat wrote:Since you're creating a new enviroment and neccesarily control who's pressent(any mean of transportation to said enviroment having a high initial cost, and thats allowing for a public harbor) why are gangs such an issue.

And even if gangs do form, why are they a greater problem underwater than they are on the surface?

Gangs are harder to locate, and have more power. See on the surface, if they raid a warehouse, no one cares. But underwater, all land is needed. Gangs end up with more land than the leaders.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:54 pm

Actually, I don't see how gangs would be more of a problem underwater than above the surface. In fact, they'd be much easier to track down, as there would be a limited space for them to operate in. A gang's mobility would be severely hampered, because they wouldn't be able to, say, duck out of town for a few weeks or anything like that. They also wouldn't be able to import or export guns or anything else from the surface, as the government would control the ports.

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Re: Rapture

Post by Tylertlat on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:55 pm

Zaki90 wrote: But underwater, all land is needed
Why would gangs form? As you said, everything present is there by neccesesity, no one's gonna intentionally import squallor, or even superfluous regions needed to nurse newly formed gangs.


Last edited by Tylertlat on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:59 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : the quote wasn't really needed, it just took up space...)
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Re: Rapture

Post by Dud Doodoo on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:04 pm

Zaki90 wrote:
Tylertlat wrote:Since you're creating a new enviroment and neccesarily control who's pressent(any mean of transportation to said enviroment having a high initial cost, and thats allowing for a public harbor) why are gangs such an issue.

And even if gangs do form, why are they a greater problem underwater than they are on the surface?

Gangs are harder to locate, and have more power. See on the surface, if they raid a warehouse, no one cares. But underwater, all land is needed. Gangs end up with more land than the leaders.
In that case we would be seeing gangs form and take over in every remote community, which we aren't.

This is besides the point, however. While an underwater city is an interesting hypothetical concept, it would take far more money to build than we will ever realistically have. If we were to plan a Crimson Flame rapture, it would be more logical to go with one of the remote islands in the pacific. A colony there could be more effectively maintained with considerably less effort than an underwater city, while serving the same purpose.


Last edited by Dud Doodoo on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Rapture

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