Re: Rapture

by **Vigil** on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:39 pm

Zaki90 wrote:
Vigil wrote:

Well for power, you could obviously use hydro electric dams to generate the electricty needed, though I will admit that isn't the best solution as it may not generate enough elecricity to support a sprawling underwater metropolis.

That, or we could just have giant oil tankers getting sunlight. And seeing we are at the bottom of the ocean, geothermal would also be great.

Geothermic vents would be a good source I guess, if we were that deep, help I beat you could get some Solar energy if angled it correctly.
Vigil wrote:Rapture failed due to it's freedom, which is something that wouldn't happen in my hypothetical city, as it would be not where as lose in idology. It would probably be a democracy like we have today, or a dictatorship.

Rapture failed because of it had gotten rid of religion. Religion is not easy to get rid of. That's were why the smuggling and cults started. It was only a matter of time before someone wanted complete control.

No reason to get rid of religion here.
Vigil wrote:As for gangs, while they would a pain to track down and contain in an underwater city but there is an easy solution. Close of that area of the city where they operate and drown them. A bit drastic I know, but it would definately make them think twice before trying any thing.

As for the tracking, tracking devices could easily be made. Bad thing is that all of this would be done secretly, and a simply override of the doors and water breaching systems could cause things to haywire. Hacking will be an everyday thing.

Tracking them wouldn't be too difficult, but Hacking would be a major problem, unless they were locked with bioscanners, even then the system isn't without it's flaws.

by Zaki90 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:13 pm

Vigil wrote:
Geothermic vents would be a good source I guess, if we were that deep, help I beat you could get some Solar energy if angled it correctly.

I ran through the game real quick. They use geothermal energy from underwater volcanoes.

Vigil wrote:No reason to get rid of religion here.

Then we extremism and gay people and homophobes all in one place.

Vigil wrote: Tracking them wouldn't be too difficult, but Hacking would be a major problem, unless they were locked with bioscanners, even then the system isn't without it's flaws.

So basically no automated turrets.

by Rasq'uire'laskar on Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:52 pm

Question? Why would you have ports that let in seawater in the first place? Just have the pods able to hermetically seal off, blocking off air.

Gangs... Well, there's always security cameras, pressure pads, and motion detectors.

I would suggest building close to the surface so water pressure won't be an insurmountable problem, but far enough away that the tides and weather won't bother you.

by **Tylertlat** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:49 am

Underwater seems to be the next step for colonization. It has the advantages of being close to civilvation, so if anything goes wrong it could be salvaged/evaculated. The materials are delivered with rather than against gravity. Once they get there, however, problems we would face in extra-earthly situations (food production in an artificial enviroment, construction of that enviroment, isolation, pressure, ect...) would be faced, serving as proof-of-concept models for when we do leave earth.

BTW, i'd suggest the use of current and tidal generaters for the production of electricity, since we're(G.E. at least) already putting them in the water to get power for land. And why would gangs be more significant underwater?

by Zaki90 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:30 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Question? Why would you have ports that let in seawater in the first place? Just have the pods able to hermetically seal off, blocking off air.

Gangs... Well, there's always security cameras, pressure pads, and motion detectors.

I would suggest building close to the surface so water pressure won't be an insurmountable problem, but far enough away that the tides and weather won't bother you.

Security cameras can't do shit. In fact, they help if they get hacked. Pressure pads will only set off alarms if someone steps on it with in this case won't stop a gang from hiding weapons.

Motion detectors also, won't stop a gang from hiding weapons. Motion detectors pick up everyone.

by **Tylertlat** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:36 am

Since you're creating a new enviroment and neccesarily control who's pressent(any mean of transportation to said enviroment having a high initial cost, and thats allowing for a public harbor) why are gangs such an issue.

And even if gangs do form, why are they a greater problem underwater than they are on the surface?

by Zaki90 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:44 am

Tylertlat wrote:Since you're creating a new enviroment and neccesarily control who's pressent(any mean of transportation to said enviroment having a high initial cost, and thats allowing for a public harbor) why are gangs such an issue.

And even if gangs do form, why are they a greater problem underwater than they are on the surface?

Gangs are harder to locate, and have more power. See on the surface, if they raid a warehouse, no one cares. But underwater, all land is needed. Gangs end up with more land than the leaders.

by **Rotaretilbo** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:54 am

Actually, I don't see how gangs would be more of a problem underwater than above the surface. In fact, they'd be much easier to track down, as there would be a limited space for them to operate in. A gang's mobility would be severely hampered, because they wouldn't be able to, say, duck out of town for a few weeks or anything like that. They also wouldn't be able to import or export guns or anything else from the surface, as the government would control the ports.

by **Tylertlat** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:55 am

Zaki90 wrote: But underwater, all land is needed

Why would gangs form? As you said, everything present is there by neccesesity, no one's gonna intentionally import squallor, or even superfluous regions needed to nurse newly formed gangs.

by Dud Doodoo on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:04 am

Zaki90 wrote:
Tylertlat wrote:Since you're creating a new enviroment and neccesarily control who's pressent(any mean of transportation to said enviroment having a high initial cost, and thats allowing for a public harbor) why are gangs such an issue.

And even if gangs do form, why are they a greater problem underwater than they are on the surface?

Gangs are harder to locate, and have more power. See on the surface, if they raid a warehouse, no one cares. But underwater, all land is needed. Gangs end up with more land than the leaders.

In that case we would be seeing gangs form and take over in every remote community, which we aren't.

This is besides the point, however. While an underwater city is an interesting hypothetical concept, it would take far more money to build than we will ever realistically have. If we were to plan a Crimson Flame rapture, it would be more logical to go with one of the remote islands in the pacific. A colony there could be more effectively maintained with considerably less effort than an underwater city, while serving the same purpose.

by **Kasrkin Seath** on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:55 am

Underwater City = No

by Zaki90 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:56 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:Actually, I don't see how gangs would be more of a problem underwater than above the surface. In fact, they'd be much easier to track down, as there would be a limited space for them to operate in. A gang's mobility would be severely hampered, because they wouldn't be able to, say, duck out of town for a few weeks or anything like that. They also wouldn't be able to import or export guns or anything else from the surface, as the government would control the ports.

I'm not sure if you have ever seen a submarine. Submarines would practically be tanks. They can easily manage a hideout. Their mobility would decrease, but their morale and ability to hold ground would gradually capture the city.

by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:04 am

Zaki90 wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:Actually, I don't see how gangs would be more of a problem underwater than above the surface. In fact, they'd be much easier to track down, as there would be a limited space for them to operate in. A gang's mobility would be severely hampered, because they wouldn't be able to, say, duck out of town for a few weeks or anything like that. They also wouldn't be able to import or export guns or anything else from the surface, as the government would control the ports.

I'm not sure if you have ever seen a submarine. Submarines would practically be tanks. They can easily manage a hideout. Their mobility would decrease, but their morale and ability to hold ground would gradually capture the city.

...
On a submarine, even a very large one, there's a set number of entrances and exits to an area.
"Hacking the security cameras" is laughable. You're assuming that the security cameras would operate on the same network as public terminals, or even private terminals, as opposed to a closed system.
Pressure pads tell you where people are. Same with motion detectors. It may not tell you who's who, but it'll tell you where they are.

And when people become a problem, stick out like nails, it's time to drop the hammer. Ever hear of the Mechanical Hound?

Anyhow, it's kind of a moot subject. Not only would underwater cities be impractical, but 'evacuation' in the event of a breach is impossible. Underwater cities are not the next step. Cities that reach to the sky and burrow into the ground are.

by Zaki90 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:52 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
...
On a submarine, even a very large one, there's a set number of entrances and exits to an area.
"Hacking the security cameras" is laughable. You're assuming that the security cameras would operate on the same network as public terminals, or even private terminals, as opposed to a closed system.
Pressure pads tell you where people are. Same with motion detectors. It may not tell you who's who, but it'll tell you where they are.

I am assuming that these wiring would be inside and run across Rapture. It would only that time before they are cut.

I believe pressure pads are things that if you put weight on them it measures it.

And you can easily distract people with motion detectors because of their inability to track specific objects.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:And when people become a problem, stick out like nails, it's time to drop the hammer. Ever hear of the Mechanical Hound?

Sometimes to many nails stick out at once before you have a chance to stop it. Before you know it, the entire place collapses.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Anyhow, it's kind of a moot subject. Not only would underwater cities be impractical, but 'evacuation' in the event of a breach is impossible. Underwater cities are not the next step. Cities that reach to the sky and burrow into the ground are.

I feel like the underwater world has been untouched by humanity, and should remain untouched unless truly necessary. So if this is in a case that this a underwater city is necessary, how would it be run correctly?

And thats the main question here.

by Nocbl2 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:22 pm

What if we made this "Rapture" so that half of it was above the surface, and half was underwater?

And gangs couldn't really do much... who could have a police force walking around. Plus, if they fired a weapon in the wrong place, a seal could burst and destroy the whole city.