Is Obama a commie?

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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by Toaster on Sun May 16, 2010 9:34 pm

CivBase wrote:
You know... Maybe socialism is okay with Britain... But have you SEEN the US government? Do you honestly believe it could successfully handle a socialistic govt?

You know what? I'm tired of being told that the US federal government can't do anything right. Whether or not you wish to accept it, the federal government plays a HUGE role in your every-day life. They regulate the air you breathe, the water you drink, the content you see/hear on television, and on the radio... They built the highway system your parents probably drive on every day to get to work. They deliver your mail with astounding efficiency. They make sure our country isn't under attack. They launch hundreds of satellites into orbit, and provide you with GPS information for absolutely no cost (outside of taxes.) The federal government is responsible for the Hubble Space Telescope. It's responsible for putting man on the God damned moon.

The federal government can get shit done. Quit acting like it can't.

Maeve wrote:
Well, the founding fathers came here in order to be free from the socialistic government of Britain. And we developed our democracy, which allows the people to vote for what they want. If we wanted the government to continue to run everything we own, including our lives, we would have never gone to America for freedom of such tyranny.

The vast majority of early Americans left either to escape religious persecution, or to acquire farmland. They later rebelled against Great Britain because they intelligently recognized the concept of "virtual representation" as complete and utter bullshit. America did NOT declare its independence on the basis of escaping socialism.

Also note that I used the pronoun "they" to describe early Americans. You did not fight for American independence. You were not alive in the 1700s. Belonging to the country which they founded does not make you one of them.

Maeve wrote:
The government is slowly gaining control of everything. Obama passed the healthcare bill without the people's approval. Now, I wouldn't be complaining if it's what the people wanted but he passed it without our votes on if we wanted it or not. That's why a lot of people are upset about it, and for the fact that it has a ton of hidden items in it. Example: One little town in Iowa has a lot of people living with cancer. Let's give some money to them only and no one else to help with the cancer problems. That's why I don't like it. It's like with gay marriage. The government passed it without the people's approval. If it's what the people wanted, I wouldn't be so against it.

You do realize that the United States is a representative democracy right? The people do not directly vote on specific issues or legislation. In this case, the government is not "slowly gaining control" of anything. They are regulating the healthcare industry. They have ALWAYS had the power to do that. Stop watching Glenn Beck.

Maeve wrote:But, I do think Obama is socialistic, not communistic. Obama himself may not think so nor his followers. (Really it's quiet scary to see these people worship him like their God. Almost reminds me of Hitler at times lol). Back up a bit and take a look at his choices and what he believes in. It's not as great as what America thought it would be, hence why his approval rating has gone down lately.

I love how the same people who opposed Obama in the first place keep accusing him of not living up to what Americans wanted from him. They are his opposition. They are the ones preventing him from keeping his campaign promises. I have trouble believing that you want him to succeed in delivering on those promises, so stop bitching about how you think he hasn't.

Maeve wrote:
Anyways, to adress CivBase's point, I don't think America can handle socialism. Even if we do adopt it, there will be a lot of people that will oppose and try to overthrow the government because of the socialism.

And what sort of message does that send about the American people? Why can't that opposition pull itself together and make reasoned arguments against this sort of legislation? Why do they immediately jump to violence and chaos? When you oppose something with such great irrationality, you give confidence to the other team. It makes them laugh, and it reassures them of their preconceived notions of logical superiority.

Treating the new bill like it's going to destroy America just makes you look stupid. It causes your opposition to brush you off, and it prevents them from taking your concerns seriously.
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by Dud Doodoo on Mon May 17, 2010 12:54 am

Before I begin to take part in whatever the direction this discussion has taken, which likely has already begun to diverge from the main topic at hand, I will provide my input on the original query.

I must point out, that if title had merely asked about my opinion concerning Obama's character, position, and/or deeds I would have gladly given a wholesome reply, one that took into account my stance on every single issue and my reasoning behind such views. However what the question asks is far more unreasonable.

I must begin then, by continuing to address the very nature of the question before providing my answer. The fact that it was asked implies that the poster believed that the answer holds significance of some sort. I assure you right now, that it does not.

Society, particularly ours, has a tendency to classify and categorize people. Placing a man into one of these categories does not alter or even slightly affect who he is as a man or what he stands for. It does however serve as distorted lens through which the nation views him. Looking through this lens, one sees not the person but the stereotype of the classification he has been placed under. One is enticed to liken such a man to all others who have been placed under this classification previous, whether deservingly or not.

It is this truth - That what a man sees through this distorted device is not truly the man himself- that allows me to title the popular accusation that Obama is a "commie", unfair. The American public sees Obama, they see communism. When they see communism, they see totalitarianism. When they see totalitarianism, they see Hitler, Stalin, and every regime ever established on this Earth which we have been taught as children to hate.

For the sake of a story, the media has exploited left over paranoia against an enemy that has long since been vanquished, in order to scare the public. The healthcare bill does in fact represent a more socialized approach as compared to the previous, but elements of socialism are not wrong by principle and should not be judged by this association alone as it has been.

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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by Toaster on Tue May 18, 2010 9:25 am

dud wrote: The healthcare bill does in fact represent a more socialized approach as compared to the previous, but elements of socialism are not wrong by principle and should not be judged by this association alone as it has been.

Furthermore, such aspects of socialim do not inherently violate any particularly American doctrine or mentality. They are perfectly constitutional, and they do not represent any kind of "additional gaining of power."

The recent health care bill represents the American government finally making an effort to regulate an industry which the constitution has ALWAYS granted it the right to regulate. The government is taking on more responsibility, but it is NOT gaining any sort of additional "power," or jurisdiction over anyone, or anything.

Big business has only been around for a little over 100 years, and the American government has been fighting it for almost its entire life-time. In 1901, the American people elected Roosevelt to the presidency in hopes that he would succeed in his promised efforts to regulate the hell out of consumer goods, forcefully mark down rail-transport fees, put support behind workers' unions, and tear apart anti-competitive business trusts.

He WAS successful, and the people loved him for it. Without him, we wouldn't have the FDA. The food you get at the grocery store would be completely unregulated. The drugs you need to survive could either be poisonous, or completely useless altogether. Monopolies would form in the business world, and you would have no way to avoid paying excruciatingly high prices for every-day necessities. Workers would have no rights. There would be no minimum wage. There would be no working-age restrictions.

Imagine is someone like Teddy Roosevelt ran for office today. Glenn Beck would be calling him a communist. He'd draw up a big chart on one of his chalk boards and draw comparions between Roosevelt and Stalin. He'd shout out remarks about how America was "turning into China," or "turning into Soviet Russia." He'd proclaim that Roosevelt's forceful regulation of the railroad industry in nearly identical to Hitler's actions leading up to WWII.

... and people would listen to him... and people would somehow convince themselves that he would be right...
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by Maeve on Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Recon: I don't watch Glenn Beck nor have I ever seen a single episode. All of my OPINIONS are my own. Don't try to assume that just because I am a conservitivr, I watch Glenn Beck.
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by Maeve on Tue May 18, 2010 2:32 pm

Oops! "conservitive"
lol
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by TNine on Tue May 18, 2010 2:35 pm

Maeve wrote:Oops! "conservitive"
lol
There is an "Edit" button...
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by Toaster on Tue May 18, 2010 2:56 pm

Maeve wrote:Recon: I don't watch Glenn Beck nor have I ever seen a single episode. All of my OPINIONS are my own. Don't try to assume that just because I am a conservitivr, I watch Glenn Beck.

I'm using Glen Beck as an archetype for that sort of deranged thinking. Now, you wrote "opinions" in all caps. I hope that isn't your way of avoiding debate. It may be your opinion, but that doesn't mean it can't be WRONG.
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by TNine on Tue May 18, 2010 3:25 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Maeve wrote:Recon: I don't watch Glenn Beck nor have I ever seen a single episode. All of my OPINIONS are my own. Don't try to assume that just because I am a conservitivr, I watch Glenn Beck.

I'm using Glen Beck as an archetype for that sort of deranged thinking. Now, you wrote "opinions" in all caps. I hope that isn't your way of avoiding debate. It may be your opinion, but that doesn't mean it can't be WRONG.
The right to make an opinion should only be given to those who can defend it.

OR

The right to make an opinion is accompanied by the responsibilty to defend it.

Which sounds better?
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

Post by Toaster on Tue May 18, 2010 3:36 pm

Tnine wrote:The right to make an opinion is accompanied by the responsibilty to defend it.

that one
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Re: Is Obama a commie?

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