Religious Debate... Again...

RX wrote:

KristallNacht wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote: I'd argue that just as much bad has come from atheists and agnostics as theists.

that would be hard to win.

religion:
Christian dark ages.
9/11
war on terror
charles manson
hitler
crusades
samson

because, you know,it had nothing to do with the fall of the Roman empire.

That graph has no units. Just thought I'd point that out.

Besides, Scientific Advancement is a rate of change, so that graph is horribly inaccurate anyway.




Multiple ignorant posts are ignorant.

off topic posts are off topic



i am now ashamed to have posted this topic, THANKS NT!

Actually, it was AJ this time >.>

KristallNacht wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote: I'd argue that just as much bad has come from atheists and agnostics as theists.

that would be hard to win.

religion:
Christian dark ages.
9/11
war on terror
charles manson
hitler
crusades
samson

I'll see your ignorance and raise you World War I, World War II, all those wars the English and French fought, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Hitler's Slaughtering of the Jews (which was based on race, not religion), everything done by the Soviet Union (which was an atheist state), the regular Dark Ages (which were dark because the Roman Empire fell, if I recall my history correctly), and then add that Christianity founded the basis of the scientific movement and also runs many charitable organizations aiding with disaster relief. Nice try, though. Maybe next time.

CivBase wrote:Actually, it was AJ this time >.>

ya but NT couldnt leave it alone


lock plz...

laxspartan007 wrote:ya but NT couldnt leave it alone


lock plz...

Naw, I'm too lazy.

laxspartan007 wrote:rot, i try to watch fox and CNN as much as i can

Well, I'm glad to hear you diversify. Watching both should help you appreciate how slanted they are in either direction.

laxspartan007 wrote:partly pecause my AP teacher likes to put questions about what happines in the world, and partly because id like to know what shit goes down and when in the world

Eh, that's what the Internet is for.

laxspartan007 wrote:...i just saw this "show" or whatever and had to post becuse there are alot of people that are argueing against a mosque because they are ignorant (they dont have good resons)

Oh, so this program was about the mosque thing near Ground Zero? Eh, I'm not really current on the debate.

I recall that, at least some time ago, the people funding the Mosque refused to prove where the funds were coming from, and with all the people claiming it was being funded by terrorists, I thought it was pretty valid point that if the people refused to show us where the money was coming from, they shouldn't be allowed to build it. And, there is the question as to whether or not it is being built for the specific purpose of being a slap in the face, though I doubt it.

I view this the same way I view stem cell research: there's a perfectly acceptable alternative to embryonic stem cell research (blood stem cell research) that isn't morally gray at all and won't piss people off that is already seeing results (whereas embryonic stem cell research is just hypothetically better), so why not use that? If the mosque can serve the community just as well a few blocks further away, why not build it there?

its accually about a mosque in texas, i never said ground zero...

and this mosque is being funded by 200 families, i tried to find a video of it, but couldnt find it...

RX wrote:

KristallNacht wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote: I'd argue that just as much bad has come from atheists and agnostics as theists.

that would be hard to win.

religion:
Christian dark ages.
9/11
war on terror
charles manson
hitler
crusades
samson

And how about the Muslim renaissance? The scientific method, modern medicine, modern algebra, our numeral system, preservation of the classics...It brought more advancements to this world than the dark ages prevented.

Moreover: the dark ages were caused by the fall of the Western Roman Empire, which fell without the aid or influence of religion. In fact the Catholic Church was very clearly the entity which held Europe from complete descent into barbarism. It was by the creation of Catholic monasteries that our history was allowed to survive. Later, the reformation drove European (and subsequently any people at some point conquered by Europeans) society forward in a renewal of literacy and the arts.

I should also mention that events such as the crusades were caused not by religion but by greed, intolerance, and the promise of adventure.

stop, or i WONT kill myself...

Rotaretilbo wrote:

KristallNacht wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote: I'd argue that just as much bad has come from atheists and agnostics as theists.

that would be hard to win.

religion:
Christian dark ages.
9/11
war on terror
charles manson
hitler
crusades
samson

I'll see your ignorance and raise you World War I, World War II, all those wars the English and French fought, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Hitler's Slaughtering of the Jews (which was based on race, not religion), everything done by the Soviet Union (which was an atheist state), the regular Dark Ages (which were dark because the Roman Empire fell, if I recall my history correctly), and then add that Christianity founded the basis of the scientific movement and also runs many charitable organizations aiding with disaster relief. Nice try, though. Maybe next time.

And i will match you with every single war in the Far East, most of the wars in Africa, and drug cartels in Latin America. Which pretty much beats out...the Crusades and some minor terrorist activity in the Middle East? And i guess some civil wars in Great Britain.

People are so focused on religious wars in the same way when we say slavery, we think black people. It's our history, it is by no means universal.

I'm in two minds about this subject, as I can see the benefits and drawbacks of secularism and organised religion.

For example here the Church of England is arguably the largest voluntary service in the country, with parishes in virtually every single village, town and city across the country and they promote a lot good services such as education, helping the homeless and help bring communities together, whether they are of the same faith or not.

The problem I have with Organised religion is mainly due to human flaws and the unrelenting to dogma from a text that's a good 2000-3000 years old now. The words a very open to different interpretations and can be twisted and contorted to make them a mockery of the original values so they can met the demands of the masters of that particular church.

The Catholic Faith as infamous for doing this when during the middle ages Kings and nobleman reported and obeyed the church, and followed a lot of it's dogma, and the church horded it's power and suppress a lot of creative scienctific thinking in the West for a long time. Now, this is not exclusive to the catholic faith, and most religions have got to the point where there not as manipulative as that anymore, but they do still have a lot of archiac rules and dogma that can discriminate and hurt progress.

Terrible things have been done in the name of religion, and segretation due to religion still occurs; Sunni;Shias muslims in Saudi Arabia, Judasim: Islam in Isreal and Palestine, Shikism: Hinduism in India and Pakistan and Protestant: Catholic christians in Ireland.

Again a secular is not free of these problems, as Rot brought up, the nazis killed jews because of their race, not their faith, due to the social stigma that they were money grubbing freeloaders stealing people's jobs. And the killing of the Kossacks was indeed racial profiling.

Faith can be a good thing, agreed, and it does have redeeming properties, but to be honest people tend to use religion as a shield to defend their actions, or to inflict their discriminating and manipulative dogma on their followers.

It's bad enough there's one on the other site, now this shit has to show up here again too?

Embrace the power of RELIGION!