Modern Warfare 3

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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:25 pm

RX wrote:I imagine it would just be a matter of resizing every separate image to the same size, then have them go in the same order as usual. Of course, I don't know squat about animations.

nope.

open > gif

image > image size

input new size

apply

save

and Civ, I've never met anyone who actually bought photoshop, everyone just uses extended trials >.>
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by CivBase on Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:17 pm

....which is stealing....

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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:53 pm

sometimes possession is an abstract concept
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:27 pm

KristallNacht wrote:sometimes possession is an abstract concept
Actually, its quite a simple concept.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:30 pm

Well who owns the photoshop after I've downloaded it? It's on my computer....only I have access to it....Adobe.com gave it to me....


so who owns it?
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:45 pm

KristallNacht wrote:Well who owns the photoshop after I've downloaded it? It's on my computer....only I have access to it....Adobe.com gave it to me....


so who owns it?
Adobe...

They didn't give you the software. They gave you the license to use it. Notably if you can use it without breaking the law, than that's Adobe's problem.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:05 pm

But who owns the data? It's on my computer. They can't take it back. Only I can choose to get rid of it. They still have theirs. So it's not some kind of loan.

See, possession is an abstract concept in the digital age.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:30 pm

KristallNacht wrote:But who owns the data? It's on my computer. They can't take it back. Only I can choose to get rid of it. They still have theirs. So it's not some kind of loan.

See, possession is an abstract concept in the digital age.
No, they own the data on your computer, and you and Adobe have entered an agreement that allows you to use that data. It's actually exactly like a loan, although if you buy software that does not require a subscription then they can't actually claim it back without a breach in contract, and would be forced to let you continue to use the software anyway. If you lease a car, it is not yours just because it is in your garage. When you say "they can't take it back", you actually mean they won't take it back, because it is simply much more difficult with much less reward, and that there is a very good chance they legally can't take it back without breaching contract.

And before you say it, no, stealing and piracy are not the same thing. Piracy is (essentially) half as bad as stealing. When you steal a physical object, you rob them of your potential purchase and the potential purchase of someone else. When you pirate something digitally, you only rob them of your potential purchase.

Short version: When you say "So it's not some kind of loan", you probably actually mean "It's pretty much exactly like a loan."

Edit: But we digress. If you want, we can take this into the debate section.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:37 pm

So, what you're saying is that possession is an abstract concept sometimes.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:41 pm

KristallNacht wrote:So, what you're saying is that possession is an abstract concept sometimes.
Here is my post:
Spoiler:
TNine wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:But who owns the data? It's on my computer. They can't take it back. Only I can choose to get rid of it. They still have theirs. So it's not some kind of loan.

See, possession is an abstract concept in the digital age.
No, they own the data on your computer, and you and Adobe have entered an agreement that allows you to use that data. It's actually exactly like a loan, although if you buy software that does not require a subscription then they can't actually claim it back without a breach in contract, and would be forced to let you continue to use the software anyway. If you lease a car, it is not yours just because it is in your garage. When you say "they can't take it back", you actually mean they won't take it back, because it is simply much more difficult with much less reward, and that there is a very good chance they legally can't take it back without breaching contract.

And before you say it, no, stealing and piracy are not the same thing. Piracy is (essentially) half as bad as stealing. When you steal a physical object, you rob them of your potential purchase and the potential purchase of someone else. When you pirate something digitally, you only rob them of your potential purchase.

Short version: When you say "So it's not some kind of loan", you probably actually mean "It's pretty much exactly like a loan."

Edit: But we digress. If you want, we can take this into the debate section.
I post it again because i fail to see where i insinuated at all that the software was anybody's but the company that bought it. No abstractacity, it is a pretty clear-cut system. Adobe owns it, you use it.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:01 pm

if it was a simple thing, it woudl be mine since I have it on my computer. and no one else has ownership of my data.

but you say its someone elses
that makes it abstract
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by Lord Pheonix on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:30 pm

TNine wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:So, what you're saying is that possession is an abstract concept sometimes.
Here is my post:
Spoiler:
TNine wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:But who owns the data? It's on my computer. They can't take it back. Only I can choose to get rid of it. They still have theirs. So it's not some kind of loan.

See, possession is an abstract concept in the digital age.
No, they own the data on your computer, and you and Adobe have entered an agreement that allows you to use that data. It's actually exactly like a loan, although if you buy software that does not require a subscription then they can't actually claim it back without a breach in contract, and would be forced to let you continue to use the software anyway. If you lease a car, it is not yours just because it is in your garage. When you say "they can't take it back", you actually mean they won't take it back, because it is simply much more difficult with much less reward, and that there is a very good chance they legally can't take it back without breaching contract.

And before you say it, no, stealing and piracy are not the same thing. Piracy is (essentially) half as bad as stealing. When you steal a physical object, you rob them of your potential purchase and the potential purchase of someone else. When you pirate something digitally, you only rob them of your potential purchase.

Short version: When you say "So it's not some kind of loan", you probably actually mean "It's pretty much exactly like a loan."

Edit: But we digress. If you want, we can take this into the debate section.
I post it again because i fail to see where i insinuated at all that the software was anybody's but the company that bought it. No abstractacity, it is a pretty clear-cut system. Adobe owns it, you use it.


I got T-Nines back on that one, he didn't say anything that supported your claim.


In fact he said the exact opposite. Even quoted what you said and said how it was wrong.

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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:08 pm

KristallNacht wrote:if it was a simple thing, it woudl be mine since I have it on my computer. and no one else has ownership of my data.

but you say its someone elses
that makes it abstract
It's not your data. Just because it's on your computer doesn't mean its yours, no more than a leased car in your garage is yours. Regardless, it STILL ISN'T YOURS. What claim do you have on that data on your computer? You bought (or may not have) a license to use their data. Think of that data as patented, if it is not indeed patented.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:54 pm

But I didn't take it from anyone. It's my personal data. No one is missing it, only I know where it is and if it's even there at all.

Doesn't that make it fairly abstract that someone else could own it?

Clearly it's not 'simple' like you're saying. Someone else owns something they never touched? what? They own something they don't even have proof exists?

on top of that, if possession was a simple concept, only things currently in your possession could possibly be yours. If you aren't holding it, how is it in your possession?
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:49 pm

KristallNacht wrote:But I didn't take it from anyone. It's my personal data. No one is missing it, only I know where it is and if it's even there at all.
It's not your personal data, it is software that you downloaded. It is on your computer, doesn't make it yours. And just because it is not missing does not mean it wasn't stolen. If you make something, you own it, even if it can be replicated. You can't print someone else's book as your own, you can't replicate someone else's music and claim it, you can't use someone else's software and call it your own.

Doesn't that make it fairly abstract that someone else could own it?
No.

Clearly it's not 'simple' like you're saying. Someone else owns something they never touched? what? They own something they don't even have proof exists?

on top of that, if possession was a simple concept, only things currently in your possession could possibly be yours. If you aren't holding it, how is it in your possession?
Because "holding it" and "owning it" are very different things. Things that are legally yours are yours, things that are not legally yours are not yours. Possession is designed to be black and white, and stay that way.

I really don't understand how you can possibly think you're right here. Piracy is not technically stealing, but it is damn similar and there is no way you can claim to be in the moral right.
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:58 pm

You're explaining a fairly abstract form of possession.

I'm not even talking about whether piracy is morally or legally acceptable.

Simply that possession is far from being simple and straightforward.



For instance:

You have a boat. You go on a travel and leave the boat with me. I promise to upkeep it. As time goes on, planks of wood start to rot a bit, so I replace them. Slowly this replaces every single plank in the boat.

Now, with those somewhat rotted planks, I end up refurbishing them and make a new boat with the good wood that's left.

Which of the two boats is yours? The one made with the wood you gave me? or the one that is made entirely with my wood?
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:37 pm

KristallNacht wrote:You're explaining a fairly abstract form of possession.

I'm not even talking about whether piracy is morally or legally acceptable.

Simply that possession is far from being simple and straightforward.



For instance:

You have a boat. You go on a travel and leave the boat with me. I promise to upkeep it. As time goes on, planks of wood start to rot a bit, so I replace them. Slowly this replaces every single plank in the boat.

Now, with those somewhat rotted planks, I end up refurbishing them and make a new boat with the good wood that's left.

Which of the two boats is yours? The one made with the wood you gave me? or the one that is made entirely with my wood?
Well, the equipment you would use to fix my boat would be yours, and most likely any of the waste would also be yours, provided i'm not being a total douche. So the wood that you took after refurbishing my boat would be yours, and you would be free to do whatever the hell you wanted with it. The original boat would be mine unless i felt bad and gave it to you, because it is merely you keeping your promise. I'd probably owe you something, but that is more morally correct than legally. Yes, there are some problems with who exactly owns the wood, but considering that this is a verbal agreement between two friends, that's just sloppy legal work. Regardless, i was talking about ownership of software more than anything else.

So no, possession is not always straightforward, but it is pretty much always black and white. And, in the case of most software, it is pretty straightforward (in the way that ludicrously long contracts are).

Yes, this is not exactly a discussion about piracy, but it most certainly is a poorly veiled discussion about piracy. I mean, come on.





And, perhaps as importantly, who the hell has a boat made out of wood anymore?
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by PiEdude on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:42 pm

Can we ever have an argument on this site that doesn't devolve into a boat metaphor?
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by CivBase on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:45 pm

They own the rights to that idea. Data is no different from a blueprint, and blueprints can be copyrighted. Just because you copied the bluprint for the new volkswagon doesn't mean you can start making them and selling them for money.

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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:26 pm

CivBase wrote:They own the rights to that idea. Data is no different from a blueprint, and blueprints can be copyrighted. Just because you copied the bluprint for the new volkswagon doesn't mean you can start making them and selling them for money.
Exxxxxxxxxxxxxactly.

Edit: 8/2/11:
Found this in the League of Legends contract:
You do not own the Software.
You agreed to it, folks.


Last edited by TNine on Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:57 am

so possession is abstract? =P
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by TNine on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:25 pm

KristallNacht wrote:so possession is abstract? =P
Reality is abstract.


Last edited by TNine on Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by BBJynne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:04 pm

numbers are abstract

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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by CivBase on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:04 pm

KristallNacht wrote:so possession is abstract? =P
This isn't about semantics, it's about legality.

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Re: Modern Warfare 3

Post by Lord Pheonix on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:18 pm

BBJynne wrote:numbers are abstract



Abstraction is Abstract

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Re: Modern Warfare 3

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