KONY 2012

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by Jamiesway on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:05 pm

i watch that ^^ Lol. Tim burton is an amazing director.
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by Jamiesway on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:07 pm

Gauz wrote:Kony has been wanted for some time now, not just because of an internet video, but because he is a war felon.


iknow, you dont have to tell me. im not one of the ignorant people that are like SAVE THE AFRICAN KIDS DERP DERP.
i actually know whats going on. this kony shits been trying to be stopped for around ten years now.
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:49 pm

but you don't understand! Facebook is giving us an opportunity to actually STOP EVERYTHING!!!
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by CivBase on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:01 pm

Facebook is giving you the chance to spread the news so that a thousand angry hipsters will hold the government responsible should they decide to pull out the troops. Considering absolutely everyone I've talked to knew about before anything was discussed, I would say that the first and most important step - raising awareness - can be checked off.

By the way, if you want to directly help the cause, don't donate to the organization who's repeatedly-stated goal is to raise awareness. Donate to an organization who has boots on the ground over there. Anyone who complains about the Invisible Children's lack of direct contribution to the cause is, frankly, stupid. You shouldn't get mad at an awareness organization for not helping the cause any more than you should get mad at a McDonald's billboard for not selling you a burger.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by KrAzY on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:35 pm

last time a MacDonalds billboard refused to sell me a burger I murdered 12 Ugandan children

I should be stopped
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:50 am

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/201231284336601364.html

just sayin'.

Invisible Children is still fairly out of touch with the reality of the region.
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by Gauz on Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:23 pm


relevant.

and this.
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by CivBase on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:14 pm

I stopped when I read "I don't watch YouTube"

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by Gauz on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:40 pm

I stopped when I read the title link. Is that relevant?
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by CivBase on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:50 pm

Read some more of it. How is sending 100 advisers considered to be militarizing Africa? And what else are we supposed to send other than military aid? Artists? Chefs?

The only problem they pointed out that actually was caused by America was our support of their corrupt government. It shouldn't be a shock to most that a majority of the African governments are corrupt. Even without our presence, though, the government wouldn't be any less corrupt or capable of doing what it's done.

The US takes the liberty of involving itself in places it shouldn't, yes. It's true that the US can be narrow-sighted when it tries to help and sometimes causes harm in other areas as a side effect. These are the things you here about in the media, though. Feel-good stories about how much we've helped in Africa aren't near as popular as an enraging story about how other people screwed Africa up. People latch on to those negative stories and somehow think they are now 'educated'.

Our problem is not that we're acting - our problem is that we're acting on single issues rather than considering at the big picture. Any foreign action should be carefully planned out and discussed with other sources before acted upon. Problems will often arise regardless, but that's just a part of life. You might run out of materials or someone might get hurt when building a bridge - that doesn't mean you just don't build it (unless, of course, it's a bridge to nowhere).

I simply can't agree with the idea of the US completely stepping out of foreign affairs. We should be more careful, more selective, and more dedicated, but stepping out wont help anything.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by dragoon9105 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:12 pm

The same thing happens whenever you mess with Nature Human or otherwise. If your going to Interfere you damn well be ready to fully commit. If not you make the situation worse.

Give people water? then stop? now they are going to go thirsty until someone digs a well, but who digs the well your gone and a hundred power hungry neighbors just drove by and killed the only man who knows how to properly dig one. Or worse, Dig a well for them, and then Leave, then those same people who would otherwise just raid them will decide they can sell,give and withhold the water as they like.
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:14 am

CivBase wrote:Read some more of it. How is sending 100 advisers considered to be militarizing Africa? And what else are we supposed to send other than military aid? Artists? Chefs?

He didn't say that the 100 advisers are specifically militarizing Africa. What his concern is is that the IC's idea for how to fix the situation would cause a militarization, which isn't what the region needs. Mainly due to the fact that people like Kony are a symptom of greater issues in the region, and not the cause.
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by CivBase on Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Then, IMO, the effort in fighting US involvement should be used to direct the US assistance into something that helps the root problems.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:56 pm

which isn't what KONY2012 is attempting to do, and is something that the government would have a much harder time doing than NGOs
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by Nocbl2 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:24 am

So instead of chopping off the breasts and preventing cancer, we're just killing the tumors as they come?
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by BBJynne on Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:57 am

US shouldn't worry about African (I understand that 'Africa' is a huge generalization) moral issues in the first place though; it's not just a matter of 'what we can do', it's about what we should do, and if it doesn't have anything to do with:
1. making the US look awesome on the world stage
2. helping interests
it's not something US needs to do.

Organizations within the US, of course, can do whatever they want; some of their missions is to go and help out in various parts of Africa, so if anyone really wants to help with some issue like this, find some organization that tries to fix w/e country and go help them out, or do it on your own initiate, just don't tell the US government to do anything.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by CivBase on Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:58 pm

That was a really good idea until the 20th century. We can't just sit back anymore. Everything affects us now. The question isn't whether we should be involved - it's HOW we should be involved.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by BBJynne on Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:42 pm

That idea is what the US followed throughout the 20th century, except for SOME of the humanitarian interventions in the 90's.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:41 pm

CivBase wrote:That was a really good idea until the 20th century. We can't just sit back anymore. Everything affects us now. The question isn't whether we should be involved - it's HOW we should be involved.

He uses child soldiers. That basically means we shouldn't get involved at all aside from humanitarian aid. Our troops killing his child soldiers is going to destroy public support for any involvement.
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Re: KONY 2012

Post by CivBase on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:55 pm

BBJynne wrote:That idea is what the US followed throughout the 20th century, except for SOME of the humanitarian interventions in the 90's.
AndnALL of the Cold War... and just about everything else we did. We more-or-less abandoned that doctrine after WW2.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by BBJynne on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:04 pm

The Cold War was the most obvious following of the idea that the US should usually only act to protect its interests.

A lot of American policy-makers thought that the Soviets were going to do a lot of aggressive expansion, and that any gains they made would be losses to places that could be under American influence and markets, as well as potential allies.

Some of the wars that happened such as Korea the US got involved in because they wanted to show their allies everywhere that they would support them, thus keeping them loyal and confident and also keeping American interests (having allies, having free market system countries to work with economically, ect.) intact.

Even the first Iraq war was at least partially the US protecting its strategic interests, those being oil from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by dragoon9105 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:55 pm

US Foreign Policy

New


And Old

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by CivBase on Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:58 pm

BBJynne wrote:The Cold War was the most obvious following of the idea that the US should usually only act to protect its interests.

A lot of American policy-makers thought that the Soviets were going to do a lot of aggressive expansion, and that any gains they made would be losses to places that could be under American influence and markets, as well as potential allies.

Some of the wars that happened such as Korea the US got involved in because they wanted to show their allies everywhere that they would support them, thus keeping them loyal and confident and also keeping American interests (having allies, having free market system countries to work with economically, ect.) intact.

Even the first Iraq war was at least partially the US protecting its strategic interests, those being oil from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
What? In the Cold War, all we did was come up with reasons to invade a dozen countries simply because they were communist. Sure, you could say it was in our interest because we thought they might assist the Soviets, but if you allow that to qualify as a reason for interest then what problems do you have with our choice of involvement right now? We never get involved in something if it isn't in our interest - there are just a lot more things that are in our interest than there were in the past. Our economy is heavily cuffed to the world economy and advances in technology and transportation has dramatically increased concerns with foreign actions.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by Vigil on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:59 pm

CivBase wrote:
BBJynne wrote:The Cold War was the most obvious following of the idea that the US should usually only act to protect its interests.

A lot of American policy-makers thought that the Soviets were going to do a lot of aggressive expansion, and that any gains they made would be losses to places that could be under American influence and markets, as well as potential allies.

Some of the wars that happened such as Korea the US got involved in because they wanted to show their allies everywhere that they would support them, thus keeping them loyal and confident and also keeping American interests (having allies, having free market system countries to work with economically, ect.) intact.

Even the first Iraq war was at least partially the US protecting its strategic interests, those being oil from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
What? In the Cold War, all we did was come up with reasons to invade a dozen countries simply because they were communist. Sure, you could say it was in our interest because we thought they might assist the Soviets, but if you allow that to qualify as a reason for interest then what problems do you have with our choice of involvement right now? We never get involved in something if it isn't in our interest - there are just a lot more things that are in our interest than there were in the past. Our economy is heavily cuffed to the world economy and advances in technology and transportation has dramatically increased concerns with foreign actions.

If that is true, why is America is completely ignoring and having no say in the European crisis that's been simmering along since last year. If the euro goes down, that's really going to effect the world economy, and of course your economy.

The reason is they wouldn't get a lot of public support, and they lack the funds to fix the problem. China has a lot of economic interests in Europe, as their one of the largest customers, and they were considering to bail them out, but they didn't because their own economy is beginning to decline.

Basically, unless a problem is in the public eye, most people like to think about problems on home soil. Which is why the KONY 2012 campaign was aimed as such. My problem is, despite their arguments to debunk it, I still feel they are making light of the larger problems in the region, and once this all blows over, people will quickly forget about them and they'll be basically back where they were.

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Re: KONY 2012

Post by Vigil on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:58 am


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