The Simulation Argument

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Tylertlat on Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:51 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:This simulation takes place over five seconds real time after we are born. It is used to cull out evil and stupid in their infancy. Our lives are judged, and should we display intelligence and honor in even mediocre forms, we are allowed to continue in life, reincarnate, with no memory of our simulations.

Would "This simulation" be the one we are in right now? If so, is it a shared group expirence (in any form) or is it unique to every individual?
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:53 pm

It would probably be individualized if it took place the 5 seconds after birth.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by CivBase on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:43 pm

And why not four seconds? I declare racism.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:32 pm

It would explain why I am forced to stay here and maintain the site against my own will.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Tylertlat on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:24 pm

Gauz wrote:It would probably be individualized if it took place the 5 seconds after birth.

Well what's to say this hypothetical entity capable of simulating an entire lifetime in the 5 second span isn't producing us in batches and testing us like an industrial quality control measure?
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Rotaretilbo on Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:40 am

By weeding out all of the stupid and evil, the need for an economic system was removed. Anything we might call a job here is fully automated now. And with immortality finally achieved, once you're out of the simulation, you can look forward to eons of whatever pleases you. To make things interesting and more realistic, we are tested all at once. The birthrate is actually quite steep in the future, as the population is much higher than we could maintain here on Earth. Your simulation ends at death, and if you meet the mark, your life does not.

What's most interesting is the entire system I've outlined is basically an allegory for the Christian belief system. The only thing I've not covered explicitly would be that perfection is required to succeed in simulation, but that the lead programmer felt bad that we all sucked, so he entered the simulation and preached about it, such that any who should truly accept him would be given an automatic passing score.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:06 am

And then one of the lesser programmers decided to be a dick and input some bad coding into the system so we all start off with a negative slate and have to work our way back up to redemption for no reason?

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KristallNacht on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:33 am

hmm....makes perfect sense. Where's you church located?
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KrAzY on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:00 am

all well and good except for the fact that the whole simulation would have to be run through the mind of a 5 second year old child. that would be like trying to run crysis on the The ENIAC and then blaming the computer when things didn't work
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Rotaretilbo on Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:00 pm

Lord Pheonix wrote:And then one of the lesser programmers decided to be a dick and input some bad coding into the system so we all start off with a negative slate and have to work our way back up to redemption for no reason?

Actually, we all start off with a clean slate. We're just really really really awful at being perfect.

KrAzY wrote:all well and good except for the fact that the whole simulation would have to be run through the mind of a 5 second year old child. that would be like trying to run crysis on the The ENIAC and then blaming the computer when things didn't work

I'm sure there could be a way to simulate consciousness via imposed REM sleep without using the brain as the primary processor. It's obviously not even close to feasible currently, but we're assuming infinitely superior technology in this little philosophical exercise, after all. It's certainly not intended to be discussed seriously.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KrAzY on Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:04 pm

if you aren't using the brain then how are you testing the individual
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Tylertlat on Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:15 pm

Brain = Hardware, Mind = Software?

Though at that point, the whole 5-seconds thing is meaningless...


Edit: If this is all a simulation anyway, for all we know our brains actually are fully functional at birth, with the physical development we experience being a condition of the test.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KrAzY on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:01 am

a mind is a process that happens when electricity goes through a brain, its not its own seperate thing... which is why if you mess with the brain even a little you can severely change someones personality
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:57 am

Would you even be able to run a simulation on an underdeveloped brain?
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:56 pm

or would the underdeveloped brain BECOME the simulation?!?!?!?!?!!??!
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:47 pm

Gauz wrote:Would you even be able to run a simulation on an underdeveloped brain?

We don't know if you can even do it on a developed brain.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:00 pm

There are a lot of things we're uncertain about, but I think running a simulation on an undeveloped brain (or maybe even damaged brain) is a greater uncertainty.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by CivBase on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:26 pm

Human brains could actually be trillions of times more advanced, but brains in the simulation are much more simple (because the brain running the simulation has to operate all brains within the simulation or something).

That, or the simulation was written in assembly.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:48 pm

or its powered by bing
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:09 pm

The simulation would be run ON a computer IN the brain.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Nocbl2 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:04 pm

Perhaps the whole reason you don't really understand a whole lot before age 5 is that the brain is underdeveloped and the simulation can't reach its full limit.

That is to say, it doesn't start overclocking until you're 25.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:47 pm

http://io9.com/5846275/biotech-breakthrough-monkeys-can-feel-virtual-objects-using-a-brain-implant

Relevant despite being over a year old. There's also been an article written about "physical" holograms in Japan... idk look it up.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Vigil on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:50 am

One thing I never understood with the whole Matrix simulation thing was what if you were sick?

Was it your brain telling you you were sick because that's what the simulation told your brain to think, just to make it more realistic?

Was your real body actually ill and why would the machines allow that it would lower the electrical energy that person produced, making them inefficent.

What about Children? If you have intercourse in the matrix, does this tell the machines to do IVF on the woman or something or are they virtual babies?

That's why I struggle to believe simulation theories , as a lot of things aren't really flushed out to the point to make it believeable.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:36 am

but thats a matrix simulation argument, THE simulation argument needs none of that, because the idea is that you probably don't even have a 'real' body.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by dragoon9105 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:49 am

Well another big problem with the Matrix argument is how does anyone die when they are essentially life support and are in never any position where an organ might fail from illness or lack of nutrition, It seems inefficient as hell to just randomly cull people in their nineties.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

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