The Simulation Argument

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:20 am

I don't think there is anything saying that an organ won't fail due to illness or disease is there?

Just that the machines have the ability to keep people in a coma and run simulations off their brain. Nothing stated that they don't just die from a disease or something. Not like the Machines really care if a few humans die every now and then. It's just a bad crop.

You think a farmer with hundreds of acres of crops really gives that much of a shit if one or two plants isn't good to pick?

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Vigil wrote:One thing I never understood with the whole Matrix simulation thing was what if you were sick?

Was it your brain telling you you were sick because that's what the simulation told your brain to think, just to make it more realistic?

Was your real body actually ill and why would the machines allow that it would lower the electrical energy that person produced, making them inefficent.

What about Children? If you have intercourse in the matrix, does this tell the machines to do IVF on the woman or something or are they virtual babies?

That's why I struggle to believe simulation theories , as a lot of things aren't really flushed out to the point to make it believeable.
Everything that you perceive inside the simulation is fabricated, including illness. The reasoning behind everything is decided by either the computer or the architect. If this reality is a simulation then a shit ton of things are either pointless or inefficient. There doesn't have to be a reason, at least that's what I think.

dragoon9105 wrote:Well another big problem with the Matrix argument is how does anyone die when they are essentially life support and are in never any position where an organ might fail from illness or lack of nutrition, It seems inefficient as hell to just randomly cull people in their nineties.
No one said that when you're connected to the simulation you're on any life support. When you die in a simulation it's either because the subject died (although one could speculate that if we've reached simulation technology that it's also possible to rid of our ethereal forms and your consciousness would live on) or you actually died, or who knows?



As for children, it could be that the child is also actually created in the base reality, or that the child is a complete fabrication by the simulation. In fact, it could be that this whole reality is a fabrication in which you're the only 'real' person and everyone else could just be an 'A.I.'.

The simulator is omnipotent, it can create anything perceivable.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by dragoon9105 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:29 pm

nah man they say it in the first movie, Every person in the Matrix is a living person thats plugged in.

And people have to be on life support otherwise they would Dehydrate or Starve within a week of being hooked up.

Illness may be a fabrication by the simulation itself but giving it leave to kill people off at random with Lethal Illnesses just to make it move believable is inefficient.

Arguably if we are in a simulation for any reason it has to serve some purpose. Whether its some Hyper Advanced Dwarf Fortress, Being used as Batteries or a simple Behavior study, Chances are we aren't being plugged in for our own benefit except in a scenario where the benefactor actually gets more from us being alive and reproducing within the system (Example being the Matrix)
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:02 pm

If I recall, it's mentioned in the Matrix at some point that it was originally designed as a happy, peaceful place where everyone was cool, but people realized it was a simulation en masse and, as a result, died. It was necessary to add in all of the flaws and grit of reality in order to make humans believe it was real.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:17 am

dragoon9105 wrote:nah man they say it in the first movie, Every person in the Matrix is a living person thats plugged in.

And people have to be on life support otherwise they would Dehydrate or Starve within a week of being hooked up.

Illness may be a fabrication by the simulation itself but giving it leave to kill people off at random with Lethal Illnesses just to make it move believable is inefficient.

Arguably if we are in a simulation for any reason it has to serve some purpose. Whether its some Hyper Advanced Dwarf Fortress, Being used as Batteries or a simple Behavior study, Chances are we aren't being plugged in for our own benefit except in a scenario where the benefactor actually gets more from us being alive and reproducing within the system (Example being the Matrix)

but this thread doesn't have much to do with the matrix.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Vigil on Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:53 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:If I recall, it's mentioned in the Matrix at some point that it was originally designed as a happy, peaceful place where everyone was cool, but people realized it was a simulation en masse and, as a result, died. It was necessary to add in all of the flaws and grit of reality in order to make humans believe it was real.

Agent Smith explains in it in the first movie, and the Architect goes over as well in the second.

Also something from the first movie that might explain it.

'I thought it wasn't real?' Neo wiping blood from his mouth.

'Your mind makes it real.' Morpheus.

The only explanation I can think of that all illness/death is perceived illness by the mind, not a real genuine illness. This mainly because it's unlikely the real body in those pods with all that protective fluid would get that many diseases as they're mostly likely a protective barrier to foreign diseases.


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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:13 am



This is beautiful. It would be amazing if dream-sharing technology were to exist one day. I believe it will.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Tylertlat on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:48 pm

They did try a peaceful happy place first, but people "knew" that the what they were experiencing was two good to be true, which caused people to wake up from the simulation and die. That one dude in white that helps them in the second movie is a remnant of this, he was an angel IIRC edit: not the keymaster, the dude that fights). They then tried a hellish world, but that had the same effect (someone came from that world too, the albino twins?). Finally, the architect realized he could most easily fool humans with a simulation which match history, which had pleasure but not as much as the heavenly simulation and had suffering but not as much as the hellish one. The current simulation, even with people dieing and zioninsts like Neo and Morpheus waking up was still the most efficient.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Ringleader on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:18 pm

How could we find out if we AREN'T in a simulation?

Wouldn't the simulators be clever enough to pull the cover over our eyes? You know, simulate real universe for the very few theoretical physicists that research this?

Bork-'Gleepzorg, ape simulation #305323135 is fumbling around with particle accelerators again, should we install a 'AHA, I've found out the Universe is real!' program on his brain?'

Gleepzorg-'Nah, too much work, just delete him, and everyone's memory of him.'
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:47 pm

thats already been addressed. It's a moot point since it can't be falsified or confirmed, so why talk about it? OMG just like religion!!!!! everybody should just ignore the idea of it.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Ringleader on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:10 pm

Pretty much.

At the end of the day, Lord Pheonix controls all.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:13 pm

Ringleader wrote:Pretty much.

At the end of the day, Lord Pheonix controls all.

Damn straight.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:43 pm

Correct, we can neither be aware of the simulation nor can we liberate ourselves from it, therefore we should either accept or ignore it.

Still interesting to speculate is the potential for this technology in our future though.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Elabajaba on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:55 pm

http://news.techeye.net/science/scientists-plan-test-to-see-if-the-entire-universe-is-a-simulation-created-by-futuristic-supercomputers

Scientists are attempting to see if we do live in a simulation. Seems like a waste of time and money to me.

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:05 pm

It will take many years to reach the computational power to give a real glimpse of whether we are living in a simulation, the scientists contend, but even by looking at the tiny portion of the universe that we can currently accurately model, it may be possible to detect 'signatures' of constraints on physical processes that could point to a simulation.

The researchers suggest that a signature could show up as a limitation in the energy of cosmic rays, for example. By testing the behaviour of cosmic rays on underlying 'lattice' frameworks governing rules of physics that could exist in future models of the universe, the researchers could find patterns that could point to a simulation.




Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, their looking for bugs?

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:38 pm

well the universes IT department is going to be working overtime


besides, they've already done this. It's called the theory of relativity. It's time distortion to fight simulation lag when moving to fast. Kinda like if in Grand Theft Auto, the whole game slowed down at a uniform pace when driving fast instead of having textures popping.


couldn't they also just figure this out by opening 'mycomputer\...\'?
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Ringleader on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:29 pm

Where is the universes porn folder?
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:34 pm

Ringleader wrote:Where is the universes porn folder?

c:/users/God/videos/bigbang

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Tylertlat on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:01 pm

Lord Pheonix wrote:
Ringleader wrote:Where is the universes porn folder?

c:/users/God/videos/bigbang

Rather anti-climatically (from an erotic perspective), it is in fact a video of the big bang. as in the universe getting bigger.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:40 pm


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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Tylertlat on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:19 pm

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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by KrAzY on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:39 pm

read passed the headline and thats not what the study says at all. journalists just suck.

its like when someone does ANYTHING involving the bending of light the headline is always "invisibility cloak in development"
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Re: The Simulation Argument

Post by Gauz on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:20 pm

Well... it IS the huffington post.
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Re: The Simulation Argument

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