Next Next Gen

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Gauz on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:17 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote: I can't think of any genres in which keyboard/mouse and controller are on an even playing field.

Any turn-based sort of game? I think they'd be pretty evenly matched.
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:21 pm

Turn based games would be evenly matched between gamepad, keyboard/mouse, and just playing with a physical board and your hands. That's the nature of removing the time element: it is pure strategy.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Nocbl2 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:30 pm

@ Vigil

Again, look at Xi3's website (the folks that make the Steam Box). It's not a streaming box, it's an actual computer.

The only big issue I see is that it probably won't be up to par with prices. Power would be too much to balance, and that sort of material used in the machine is expensive.
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by dragoon9105 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:51 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:Turn based games would be evenly matched between gamepad, keyboard/mouse, and just playing with a physical board and your hands. That's the nature of removing the time element: it is pure strategy Luck.

Fixed, Were talking Xcom here not chess
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Elabajaba on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:19 pm


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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by CivBase on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:45 pm

Would it be unreasonable for M$ and Sony to come up with keyboard options that are comfortable and practical in a living room setting?

Keyboard-style game pads already have a strong foothold in the gaming market and all mice really need area flat, stable surface - which seems like a dilemma which could easily be accounted for by either company.

I mean, we're talking about the next generation of hardware. I don't want them to try and re-invent the wheel every gen like Nintendo, but when we run into the "controllers aren't as accurate as mouse-and-keyboard" problems, don't you think someone should be trying to bridge that gap instead of accepting it as uncrossable?

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:32 pm

The thing is most console gamers don't WANT mouse and keyboard, they want controllers.


Chances are it would be a huge sink to put money into keyboard and mouse gaming.

Anyone who would choose to pay money to buy a keyboard and mouse combo to play with an RTS game that they would also buy would probably already just be a PC gamer and just play it on their PC.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Vigil on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:06 am

CivBase wrote:Would it be unreasonable for M$ and Sony to come up with keyboard options that are comfortable and practical in a living room setting?

Keyboard-style game pads already have a strong foothold in the gaming market and all mice really need area flat, stable surface - which seems like a dilemma which could easily be accounted for by either company.

I mean, we're talking about the next generation of hardware. I don't want them to try and re-invent the wheel every gen like Nintendo, but when we run into the "controllers aren't as accurate as mouse-and-keyboard" problems, don't you think someone should be trying to bridge that gap instead of accepting it as uncrossable?

They did, it was called the Chatpad.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Nocbl2 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:01 am

I don't think that ever actually served keyboard functionality except when messaging.
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Vigil on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:34 am

Nocbl2 wrote:I don't think that ever actually served keyboard functionality except when messaging.

The 360 had the chatpad which I believe was only used for messaging but they did have a 360 useable keyboard that was supported in some games.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:37 pm

Vigil wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:I don't think that ever actually served keyboard functionality except when messaging.

The 360 had the chatpad which I believe was only used for messaging but they did have a 360 useable keyboard that was supported in some games.
You could type your pinatas names in Viva Pinata!
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by CivBase on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:02 am

So.... we're sticking with controllers because it's what we've used up till now?

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:01 pm

CivBase wrote:So.... we're sticking with controllers because it's what we've used up till now?
Yes.

I mean, come on. Console players aren't going to give up the ghost and finally embrace the superior mouse/keyboard setup. And don't get me started on the joke that motion controls are.
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by CivBase on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:48 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I mean, come on. Console players aren't going to give up the ghost and finally embrace the superior mouse/keyboard setup. And don't get me started on the joke that motion controls are.
We're at a point where motion technology and touch screens are somehow taking control of console peripherals. I have trouble accepting that keyboard and mouse could be shun in light of everything that's happened in the last couple years.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by TNine on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:12 pm

Have you guys ever tried to use a mouse without using a table?

"Superior setup" my ass.
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by CivBase on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:32 pm

Again, it shouldn't be difficult for M$ or Sony to build mouse-and-keyboard peripherals that work well in a livingroom setting.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Lord Pheonix on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:42 pm

As a normal console is set up it is usually a tv on one end of a room and a couch a good amount of distance from the tv.


The console gamer is sitting in a couch or a chair all this distance away from the tv(average PC gamer is at most 1 1/2 - 2 ft from their monitor while a Console gamer can be anywhere from 5-15 feet away from their TV) and probably leaning back in it away from any tables.

To get these gamers to play a mouse and keyboard they would also need a table or stand that fits the height of their sitting position and lets them sit in a COUCH comfortably while sitting up straight to reach the keyboard and mouse.

A chair and a desk is the only way to really comfortably play a keyboard and mouse competitively.

If you think you can then try getting a laptop with a wireless mouse and play on a couch for a few hours online in some game. Shit doesn't work. And that's with the monitor in front of you and not across the room.


And the traditional console gamer just doesn't WANT to play with a keyboard and mouse. If they wanted to play with a keyboard and mouse they'd go on the computer and play games.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by CivBase on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:43 pm

These arguments don't make the slightest bit of sense to me, but I'm really sick of the debate so this will be my last post on the subject.

Final Thoughts:
With a little effort and ingenuity, there's no reason a keyboard and mouse setup couldn't be designed as an acceptable replacement for a controller in a livingroom environment.

Regardless, I do all my PC gaming either sitting on my bed at home or on my futon in college. There is never a table or desk involved, yet I can operate just fine.

If people want controllers instead, it would still be an option - just like it is for PC games. We already have additional peripherals that allow greater control than the standard controller anyway; keyboard and mouse could just be one more.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Nocbl2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:52 pm

^ and that's all, folks.

Controllers are just... easier. They're smaller and it's often more comfortable to have one because you're in a more relaxed position. However, my brother did have his wireless keyboard/mouse linked to the PC linked to the TV, which actually worked well in our recliner. The mouse was on the arm and the board on his lap. But it's more expensive to go wireless and it would glitch out more.
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:16 am

CivBase wrote:These arguments don't make the slightest bit of sense to me, but I'm really sick of the debate so this will be my last post on the subject.

Final Thoughts:
With a little effort and ingenuity, there's no reason a keyboard and mouse setup couldn't be designed as an acceptable replacement for a controller in a livingroom environment.

No, you don't get to pretend like you don't understand our arguments, yet offer absolutely no plausible solution. You can't just keep saying "I'm sure they could." You need to go further. How? How are you going to design a keyboard, which requires complete stability, that fits perfectly into a player's lap without teetering at all, and a mouse, which requires both stability and a perfectly flat surface, that fits...somewhere else, I guess?

CivBase wrote:Regardless, I do all my PC gaming either sitting on my bed at home or on my futon in college. There is never a table or desk involved, yet I can operate just fine.

And what games are you playing in this manner? Where do you put your mouse?

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by dragoon9105 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:10 am

I use a mouse and keyboard (mainly because i can't stand laptop built in mousepads or keyboards) while sitting in my living room, No desk required, You just need to be creative.

Keyboard you simply put across your knee's or prop it up on a coffee table, For a mouse its really easy to get used to having the mouse next to you instead of in front of you. Granted you wont be playing anything competitive with a setup like that but it can work.

Foldable tables(The proper name eludes me) work wonders as well and are the right height to put a keyboard and mouse on (As normally you'd be eating off them), I have a nice wooden set of four that was something like 50 bucks.

So Yes, it is Viable, Not really a good idea, but its hardly as horrible as everyone is making it out to be.
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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by CivBase on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:53 pm

*sigh* remember when I said last post? I lied.

Rotaretilbo wrote:No, you don't get to pretend like you don't understand our arguments, yet offer absolutely no plausible solution. You can't just keep saying "I'm sure they could." You need to go further. How? How are you going to design a keyboard, which requires complete stability, that fits perfectly into a player's lap without teetering at all, and a mouse, which requires both stability and a perfectly flat surface, that fits...somewhere else, I guess?
I understand your arguments, I just don't think they have much merit. I'm not dedicated enough to draw up a design for how to do it, but it's not a particularly challenging task for billion-dollar companies who exit (or have departments which exist) solely to develop and compete in the gaming industry.

Again, they've been developing much more complicated systems like motion control or peripheral surface projection -this would be a much easier task. I don't need to write up blueprints to prove it's true. Just look at some of the optional peripherals recently developed for PC gamers. Gamepads, for instance, fill the roll of a keyboard for most games. A mouse would be trickier, but a special, rigid mousepad could fix that. Laser-tracking also makes mice a lot more versatile.

Like I've said, I play on a futon with no special props other than a simple mousepad. It wouldn't hurt to use a pillow to prop it up, but it's still a huge improvement in aiming compared to analog sticks. I like controllers and all, and I can still play them comfortably (even choose to on some games), but if they are the only major hindrance to cross-platform support, I'll gladly vote to drop them for mouse-and-keyboard.

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by KrAzY on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:33 pm

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Vigil on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:14 am

Man I loved ''All Good Things''.

Speaking of TNG, when's the next enhanced Blue-ray season out?

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Re: Next Next Gen

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:31 am


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Re: Next Next Gen

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