Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

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Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:11 pm

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/

An interesting article I read a week ago.

What's your guys thoughts???

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by KrAzY on Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:42 pm

I wouldnt say its ruined, the bar has been lowered for people to get into it, so more people do... I would bet the same % of people are just as nerdy and savvy as older generations of gamers than before. maybe even a higher % since games are easier to get into now.
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:35 pm

Shootshoot Bangbang has served as a catalyst for the dilution of gaming by casuals, and also as a catalyst for publishers lowering the bar across the board to appeal to these casuals. However, it was not necessarily to blame for either of these. I blame casual gamers for having no standards and publishers for having no honor.

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by CivBase on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:39 pm

Meh, I've heard this guy before. He's just sore that Red Orchestra didn't sell as well, but should it surprise him? He's trying to tackle Call of Duty - a task no different from trying to topple World of Warcraft. shootshootbangbang is an established franchise and it's main player base, casual gamers, simply isn't interested in trying new titles.

I don't mind games which use the "shoot shoot bang bang" appeal. shootshootbangbang is a reasonably fun game and I don't think that lowering the bar has really hurt itself or the general community. In fact, all it's really done is popularized gaming which allows triple-a games to survive. This generation of gamers hasn't been ruined, it just has a lot of new members who are only interested in more casual titles.

If anything, "shoot shoot bang bang" has ruined the industry, not the players. EA has been sacrificing their IPs left and right trying to chase a success they cannot achieve - Call of Duty stays popular because it established itself early on and nothing EA can do will ever fix that. They are taking IPs like Battlefield or Dead Space and making decisions which are destructive to the gameplay in order to catch the attention of the "shoot shoot bang bang" crowd.

Much like ES did with Halo Wars, EA keeps sacrificing the quality of a series in a vain attempt to broaden its appeal. When the game launches, dedicated players leave the series, feeling betrayed, and the casual crowd only stays interested for a few weeks before falling back on the established franchises.

Meanwhile, Activision has destroyed two decent developers for the sake of cloning the same title over and over again; the last four CoDs have had no meaningful development, but Activision released them for an outrageous $120-per-year (if you include the DLC, which is required to get much of a multiplayer experience). Not even WoW can get away with those kinds of prices!

So yah.... the people who play shootshootbangbang are fine. There's nothing wrong with an inherently easier game. Personally, I prefer a challenge so that my success actually means something, but if all a person wants is instant gratification I think there are much worse places to go to than Call of Duty. The "generation" isn't the problem, it's the crappy publishers.


Welp, that's my opinion. Also, here's a raindeer. rendeer

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Gauz on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:34 pm

Well shootshootbangbang (alternatively, spunkgargleweewee) has trained publishers to poop new of the same.

To be fair though, I think this is what happens as gaming becomes a bigger thing.
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:40 pm

The one thing that bothers me about the shootshootbangbang fanbase is that a good number of them ONLY play shootshootbangbang, then have the ignorance to say its the BEST shooter and the BEST game.

and i'm all like



BITCH you don't play other games! You don't know shit!

>:[

source: Constant conversations with many O' people.

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Gauz on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:48 pm

True that. Someone on facebook posted a picture of "there are 2 kinds of people in the world" and on the bottom it showed battlefield 3 and some modern warfare. As if to say everyone likes one or the other. *gaag*


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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by KrAzY on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:54 pm

I am honestly proud of the fact that everyone automatically understood what shootshootbangbang is even with the word filter
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:09 pm

*This one hasn't played one of those games since "World at War". And that was on the Wii.

I think that Call of Duty is definitely a homogenizing force on the video game industry, both through publishers and players. Not sure how many of you guys kept up with Halo 4, but HINO-4 Multiplayer has rank-unlockable perks and personal ordnance. You can't call in a Sparrowhawk gunship to mow down the other team (Yet) but it's not Halo anymore.

And there's a lot of people out there who think it's overdue. That ADS and perks and killstreaks are part of the 'modern gaming experience', or that Halo needs them to survive in the market. It's not just that one reviewer, you know.

KrAzY wrote:I am honestly proud of the fact that everyone automatically understood what shootshootbangbang is even with the word filter
We're a smart lot around here.

Naturally, the kind of people who actually play Call of Duty and love it would take a lot longer to figure it out.
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by dragoon9105 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:37 am

Honestly the funnest part about Halo 4 is the new Action sack game-mode with double move speed and Binary Rifles and Swords. Also unlimited thruster pack.

Call me old fashioned but actually being able to move through a level without half the game finishing and having more of a skill requirement than "Hold down trigger until they die" in shooting people is rather nice. Anyone who has halo 4 should give it a try. Also arguably in regular play it lost some call of duty elements as the game isn't super dark and gritty like reach was (But gained the token unlock system)
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Rotaretilbo on Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:40 am

While I agree that the publishers are partially to blame, I'm totally willing to blame the casual playerbase as well. While it is a shame that publishers like EA and Activision have no honor, it is what we expect from giant corporations: they do what makes the most money.

The consumers, on the other hand, have complete power over the corporations. All we need to do is not support shit like Dead Space 3 and Shootshoot Bangbang 8 by not buying it, and the publishers would get the picture that funding innovation will be more profitable than funding imitation.

But right now, the ignorant masses are making imitation far more profitable than innovation. Can you blame the publisher for appealing to the masses? I do, but I blame the masses too.

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Nocbl2 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:35 am

dragoon9105 wrote:Honestly the funnest part about Halo 4 is the new Action sack game-mode with double move speed and Binary Rifles and Swords. Also unlimited thruster pack.

Call me old fashioned but actually being able to move through a level without half the game finishing and having more of a skill requirement than "Hold down trigger until they die" in shooting people is rather nice. Anyone who has halo 4 should give it a try. Also arguably in regular play it lost some call of duty elements as the game isn't super dark and gritty like reach was (But gained the token unlock system)
Halo has become an evolved version of Call of Duty. It has some of the interesting elements that make Call of Duty sort of fun and appealing, but it carries with it depth of gameplay. Call of Duty has a very limited depth; it is just shootshootbangbang. Hardcore mode actually makes you think a little bit more, but it is fairly flat. Halo, on the other hand, REQUIRES teamwork and map control; as for the latter, it has come up short in recent times, but it still works.
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Elabajaba on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:55 am

CivBase wrote:Meh, I've heard this guy before. He's just sore that Red Orchestra didn't sell as well, but should it surprise him? He's trying to tackle Call of Duty - a task no different from trying to topple World of Warcraft.

Except the game sold very well for an indie game (they made back its budget in preorders alone).

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/17520-red-orchestra-2-breaks-company-sales-records/

As to the article, I think that shootshootbangbang has oversimplified the fps genre by having huge amounts of autoaim and massive hitboxes, but the biggest problem I have with it is its community.


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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Vtrooper on Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:12 am

I have to agree with the guy on fear. Really only had the feeling in Battlefield 1942 and Halo: Reach, well those are the times i remember anyway.
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by CivBase on Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:45 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:While I agree that the publishers are partially to blame, I'm totally willing to blame the casual playerbase as well. While it is a shame that publishers like EA and Activision have no honor, it is what we expect from giant corporations: they do what makes the most money.

The consumers, on the other hand, have complete power over the corporations. All we need to do is not support shit like Dead Space 3 and Shootshoot Bangbang 8 by not buying it, and the publishers would get the picture that funding innovation will be more profitable than funding imitation.

But right now, the ignorant masses are making imitation far more profitable than innovation. Can you blame the publisher for appealing to the masses? I do, but I blame the masses too.

Problem is that, for the most part, the players are divided into two markedly different camps. The first camp is composed of people who desire instant gratification from video games. They will buy a console plus four or five popular games so they can game with their friends every now and then or simply waste time on a rainy day. This is, of course, the 'casual' market. The second camp is full of players who cannot feel the same gratification without knowing they've overcome a challenge. They care a lot about story and design. These gamers also build themselves a large game library, often ranging from 20 to over 200 titles across multiple platforms. They are the 'core' market.

Casual gamers don't care as much about quality because, as long as they want is gratification while playing with their friends. They also don't care much about price since they buy relatively few videogames and almost never gamble with a new IP. Core gamers are the opposite. I don't really see anything wrong with desiring instant gratification from a game since, well, the primary function of videogames is entertainment. In fact, I think the two markets can co-exist very easily. Publishers can market and milk their casual titles, but only so many of these titles can exist at once due to the nature of the casual market, and they make up for this by providing a larger variety of titles to core gamers (who will support new IPs and ideas).

But then you get stupid publishers like EA. True, we expect publishers to go where the money is, but problems arise when the publisher is too stupid to know where that spot is. The casual market has boomed so quickly that EA is throwing away everything and abandoning its dedicated customers in hopes that they casual gamers will provide that same support on a much larger scale. But, of course, they wont. Casual gamers by nature do not play a variety of games. They do not support new titles. They wont give EA the kind of revenue they it is hoping for and EA is absolutely stupid for not realizing this. They're fighting an uphill battle and, at the top of that hill is nothing more (if not less) than what is at the bottom.

This article is about something a little different, but it really changed my thoughts on EA - not for better or for worse, but I feel like I understand them more. Even if you disagree with me or the article, I recommend giving it a read.

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Tylertlat on Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:24 am

CivBase wrote: here's a raindeer. rendeer
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by TNine on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:07 am

whoops.


Last edited by TNine on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by KrAzY on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:10 am

wrong thread TNine
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by CivBase on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:56 pm

Awwww... I was hoping to get on this evening and find a response to my post Sad

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by CivBase on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:55 pm

This seems like a good thread for me to drop this.

[Link] Apparently EA isn't happy about the idea of being named "Worst Company in America" two years running.

I summarized the letter in my own (completely unbiased) words so that I could respond to it easily.

"We're a big company, so we're allowed to do stupid stuff once in a while"
That isn't even remotely an excuse. You're right about big companies having an easier time screwing up, but despite all the crap EA has been responsibly for, it has done nothing outstandingly good in its past few years of operation. Valve, Google, Microsoft, and many other large, high-profile software developers/publishers have done many outstanding things and, because of that, we can forgive their missteps (which they certainly have had). The same respect cannot be given for EA.

"Come on, guys. We're not actually the worst."
They take the liberty of mentioning BP's oil spill here, which is rather hilarious imo. BP took full responsibility for their mistake. Yah, it was bad and we should be much more critical of BP as a result, but they accepted their responsibility with dignity and humility. In addition, BP has and is continuing to do a lot of good things. They certainly aren't an amazing company, but a large-scale accident is far less condemning than a history of screwing over customers wherever possible.

They also mention some crap companies from the recent financial crisis (and the author of the article points out Ticketmaster as well). Those companies are deserving of a lot of hate, perhaps more than EA, but the letter is still basically saying "Yah... we suck...... but look! Those guys are worse!". Not only is this a horrible defense for EA's poor ethical state, but it shows that their intentions are to scrape by as a barely tolerable force of evil. I don't care what industry it is, that is a business model entirely deserving of "Worst Company of the Year".

"Once again, the SimCity online requirement isn't DRM. Take our word for it already!"
In fact, let's look at what the article actually says.

"Many continue to claim the Always-On function in SimCity is a DRM scheme. It's not. People still want to argue about it. We can't be any clearer - it's not. Period."

Do I even need to point out how messed up that is? EA has a history of shoving crappy DRM down people's throats in the disguise of "services" and they expect us to believe this is different simply because they say it is? It does the exact same thing as every other DRM "service" they employ, but even more horribly executed and even more hostile towards consumers than ever before. I don't care whether or not EA calls it DRM; it looks, smells, and acts exactly like DRM and nobody wants it.

"There's nothing wrong with Origin competing with Steam"
I'm perfectly acceptable with Origin as a competing platform for Steam. Except it doesn't compete. They're not trying to compete. It offers less than Steam in ever respect and the only reason anyone uses it is because EA wont let you play their games without it anymore.

"Some claim there's no room for Origin as a competitor to Steam. 45 million registered users are proving that wrong."

Since when did user count on a required platform indicate anything about quality? A similar figure is used regarding SimCity and not only is it laughable, but it's just sad.

"People voting for this are stupid. Who even cares about the guy on the cover of a sports game?"
And here a small group of idiots is picked out of the bunch and used to imply something about the overall competence of anyone who votes similarly. What a load of crap.

"Look at all the stuff we did for LGBTs! Some people are even complaining about that!"
They took a stance on a political issue and are somehow surprised that they are receiving flack from the political position. Gasp.

The real issue is that EA's actions regarding LGBT support have only come immediately in the wake of the Mass Effect 3, Aliens: Colonial Marines, and SimCity fiasco. It's nothing more than pandering. Just a sick tactic, exploiting a group of generally good-heated people in an attempt to cash in on the love. Not even BP has gone to the same extend of pandering as EA has.




I tend to think more of EA as bumbling idiots rather than pure evil, but the award is to the Worst company, not the most evil. That letter was cold and calculated and I just needed to rant about it for a bit. Here's some Kool-Aid for your patience Koolaid

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by KrAzY on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:00 am

none of those look like serious things that actually warrant any response... was their reply posted on monday by any chance?
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by CivBase on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:40 am

I have no clue. I just am sick of them trying to wiggle out of everything rather than just sucking it up and trying to improve.

What really gets me is their last two bullet points. Once again, EA works to vilify its unsatisfied consumers. I can't think of any other company so unwilling to accept responsibility for its own faults. Even as he admits to the company making mistakes, he turns around and attacks the consumers who call them out.

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:15 pm


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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by Lord Pheonix on Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:47 pm

I like that last one lol.

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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

Post by TNine on Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:48 pm

I think the "millions of users use meth" is also a false equivalency. Meth destroys your body, i don't think the same could be said for games.

A better argument is that just because people use it doesn't mean people like it. In fact, a lot of people dislike it because they have to use it.
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Re: Has shootshootbangbang ruined a gen of gamers?.

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