Microsoft Announcement

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by PiEdude on Sat May 25, 2013 4:09 pm

I''ll fix it when I get home, I'm currently on lunch at work using my phone.
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Rotaretilbo on Mon May 27, 2013 7:24 pm

Since you didn't fix it, I did.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Angatar on Mon May 27, 2013 10:05 pm

Is... Is it over? The world didn't end?

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by PiEdude on Tue May 28, 2013 11:24 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:Since you didn't fix it, I did.

Thanks. I forgot to fix that the other day
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KrAzY on Tue May 28, 2013 6:02 pm

you did.

I unfixed it buttkick
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Lord Pheonix on Tue May 28, 2013 6:23 pm

And that's why he's qualified to be Admin.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KrAzY on Tue May 28, 2013 10:22 pm

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by CivBase on Wed May 29, 2013 9:23 am

Online 24 Hour Check-in
I am still in a little disbelief about this, although it appears to have been confirmed. Once a week or once a month maybe, but every 24 hours? That's going to be a huge kick against the Xbox One if they don't get it changed.

Used Games
Personally, I don't see this as being such a big problem. We've already accepted that digital games are tied to accounts and, like PC, the console digital market will probably become a more popular point of sale. I'd gladly trade in my right to sell or load my game if it means I get 75% off. Digital games enjoy deeper discounts than used and they never get lost or broken. Physical disks will stick around because of their tangibility and, of course, Microsoft will still allow you to connect the disk to another account for a fee, but my money is on digital taking a huge leap with the next gen.

Kinect Required
I don't see this as quite as big of a deal as most. The Kinect is a novelty - not a core gaming device - but it provides developers with a guaranteed set of tools which may lead to some interesting gaming experiences. The Wiimotes were far more cumbersome and less capable, so I'm willing to let the Kinect slide.

Hardware
Word on the street is that the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the Xbox One. That's going to hurt Xbox, but it's hardly a knockout. Both are lightyears ahead of the Wii-U and both will be lightyears behind PCs by the end of their life. Besides, the Xbox One's slower calculation rate could feasibly be offset by it's shorter RAM latency, HDD speed, or a number of other unknown hardware specifications. Maybe the supposed 'cloud computing' think will even have a hand in the console's power. We just don't know enough to say one way or the other.

Online Services
Nothing new on this front. I like XBL more than the PSN, but it had better be free this time. If XBL has a subscription and they require that 24-hour check-in.... well, it would take a miracle for me to stick with Xbox.

Just waitin on E3 now.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed May 29, 2013 10:22 am

Well I play PC and us PC gamers 95% of the time buy games from steam which is all digital and has a 0% rate of selling used games and none of us have really given a shit.

I've never felt the need to sell my $60 for $3 the week after I get done playing it and I don't think the used games thing will amount to much in the end.


Microsoft getting rights to sell the new shootshootbangbang Ghosts DLC early shows EA is supporting them more and what matters most is what publishers work with who. It doesn't matter what the PS4 has in terms of online support or hardware if they don't have shit for games. They've already lost exclusivity for some of their games like the Final Fantasy series so they need things that will actually attract gamers.


http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/used-games-twitter-complaints-and-sony-why-the-xbox-one-backlash-doesnt-mat

I read and liked this article about the current talk with my favorite bit being:

"The second thing we have to remember is that a hashtag and a few blog posts isn’t a backlash. No one at Microsoft or Sony cares about what you post on the forums of your favorite gaming website. I hate to be the bearer of bad news in this regard, but right now the reaction to the possible used game restrictions amounts to a fart in the wind. What matters is consumer behavior, and we don’t have any data points to show us how things have changed."

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed May 29, 2013 11:48 am

The PS3 was alleged to have a more powerful GPU than the 360 back when both launched, and everyone believed it until we started comparing ported games side-by-side and realized the PS3 choked trying to draw vertices because their shader pipelines were garbage. I wouldn't worry about arbitrary claims that the PS4 is more powerful.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Vigil on Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:46 pm

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Well now it's official.

It's okay, but I'm not super happy about the 1-time loan thing.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Ascendant Justice on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:20 pm

Lol so Sony has dominated E3 2013. Fuck its like Microsoft isn't even trying anymore.

Guess Ill be getting a PS4 over the Xbox One.
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Vigil on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:00 pm


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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by PiEdude on Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:45 pm

Vigil wrote:

Where'd you find actual footage of the Sony presentation?
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:52 pm

so the ps4 is selling at the 360 price and the one is selling below the ps3 price and people think this matters?
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KristallNacht on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:55 pm

Vigil wrote:http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Well now it's official.

It's okay, but I'm not super happy about the 1-time loan thing.

Except, it says right in that link, that they can still be traded in and sold. As far as I can tell, it's set up so you can give the game to someone you aren't even in physical contact with through xbox live.

I'm gonna switch to day one digital anyway, so I could give a shit lol
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Vigil on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:21 am

KristallNacht wrote:
Vigil wrote:http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Well now it's official.

It's okay, but I'm not super happy about the 1-time loan thing.



Except, it says right in that link, that they can still be traded in and sold. As far as I can tell, it's set up so you can give the game to someone you aren't even in physical contact with through xbox live.

I'm gonna switch to day one digital anyway, so I could give a shit lol

Read the fine print.

They can be traded in at retailers that have opted into their system. The game is licensed and locked to your console, and when you decide to sell it, it will be wiped and then resold. (Which may give a premium to Microsoft, but that's not confirmed yet). 

You can give it to somebody ONCE and you can never get it back. Rentals and such will not be possible at launch. It's great that you can give it digitally now, but even then it's a huge restriction as content is locked to your console, and the always-online requirement makes it really difficult to play locally with friends, or someone like yourself serving on a military base, where internet connectivity isn't the best.

And lose a ton of your consumer rights? Your choice, but honestly I'd like being able to play my games at a friends house and lending it to them if I so choose. I also don't always have a solid internet connection, so the 24-hour check in is crazy.

If you have a solid connection that's tolerable, but even if your fine with this kind of system, not even Steam is this restrictive.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KrAzY on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:06 am

the not being able to physically hand a disk to your friend for him to play elsewhere will be annoying. BUT. with what they are doing YOU will be able to play ANY game you own on any xbox on the planet (presumably without a disk) so youll still be able to go to your friends house and play like that.


anyways, microsoft is a smart company and they wont let sony have a market leg up on them like that even if they REALLY want it. I bet that policy gets revised before the xbox is released.
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Vigil on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:16 am

And if you disconnect from the internet at your friends house, you have 1 hour to get it back.  

And that will require a lot of downloading/relying on the cloud. And to be frank, cloud saves haven't been the most reliable on the current 360, So I wouldn't want to trust my entire games library with them.

They are, and despite being in a pretty bad situation right now, if they get dominated at Christmas by Sony in terms of units sold, I'm sure this time next year we will see some changes.

The problem is right now Sony is the one making the more convincing argument to me and most console gamers. 

As while an all Digital future is inevitable, doing so fast and so wrong is what has put people off the Xbox One.  If they then can be a bit more flexible with their DRM, or at least make a convincing argument why consumers should give up all these rights (Ala Steam and the regular sales and lower prices) then it would be a lot more easier to accept.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KrAzY on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:25 am

well, this console cycle is supposed to last at least 10 years, PS4 is chaper, so it will probably win in sales initially, but in the end the system that sells the most is the one who panders to the general public the most... not the one that appeals to the game community the most, if microsoft is good at anything, it is pandering to the masses.


my biggest suprise is the PS4 selling for $400 ... especially considering that selling the PS3 at even $600 was operating at a loss for them... either they are covering a good deal of the actual cost for their machine, or something is getting left out, because you dont upgrade on a machine that costs $700 to build and end up with something that selling for 400 will earn you a profit.
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Vigil on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:34 am

Mr.Inferior of the two Admins wrote:well, this console cycle is supposed to last at least 10 years, PS4 is chaper, so it will probably win in sales initially, but in the end the system that sells the most is the one who panders to the general public the most... not the one that appeals to the game community the most, if microsoft is good at anything, it is pandering to the masses.


my biggest suprise is the PS4 selling for $400 ... especially considering that selling the PS3 at even $600 was operating at a loss for them... either they are covering a good deal of the actual cost for their machine, or something is getting left out, because you dont upgrade on a machine that costs $700 to build and end up with something that selling for 400 will earn you a profit.



True, but PS4 still has all the social stuff from the PS3 in it. Not to mention the PS eye and Move are still peripherals. Sony is trying to pander to both, they did get a lot of momentum in the PS3 as it was the cheapest way to get a blue-ray player for quite a while, so I wouldn't count them out of that market. They've just been smart to talior their message to the core game community first, as those are the people who will go out day one and support these machines, and they proabably the audience they need to reconnect with after their failure to do so early on with the PS3.

Microsoft are great at that, but they're also great at pissing their customers off. See Windows 8 and Vista. I just don't see why you'd want a $500 set-top box for TV, that also plays games.

I was surprised as well, as they've got the more expensive tech in there. I think the PSeye or move isn't in the bundle and that doesn't include PSN+ subscription ($50-60, though the same is true of XBL Gold). Nintendo does a similar thing where they cover a portion of the cost, because they make it up with first-party software sales. As most of the launch games revealed so far it (Killzone, Knack, Infamous etc) are first party, I might suspect that might be the case. I'm sure it will become more clear as we approach the launch.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KrAzY on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:49 am

I liked vista, I even used it for its entire run (actually for about a year longer :I )


in the end I dont really cares who wins the console war... I havnt touched a console in over a year except to watch DVD's... my original 360 still works (and I bought it the week they released) so it handles all my DVD needs.

I am starting to get tired of all the "good job going bankrupt"s and "I cant wait to see microsoft go out of business"s and "haha look at microshits stocks drop due to the new xbox"

considering that microsofts stocks are still higher than they were 3 days ago and WAY up over the last year... thats not only a small sample size fallacy (aka, today and yesterday) it is a case of Post hoc ergo propter hoc .... stocks raise and lower more than they have since the announcement without provocation.


if theres one thing I hate more than companies with no regard for their customers.... its popular bandwagoning
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by Vigil on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:01 am

I'm a lot more invested in this fight, as my main form of gaming is on a console. 

I will go to who caters to what I want in a console the most. I don't care about the tons and tons of anti-Microsoft banter and "Sony's won next gen" stuff. Honestly, I may be more leaning to a PS4 right now, but if Microsoft turns around and gives me a good reason to buy their console, I'll do that. 

Either way I'm probably going to wait a while, and not buy either at launch. There's still a lot left I can play on my 360 both now and going into next year or two, so I'm happy to let them slug it out and have a clearer picture as to the pros and cons of both.

The Microsoft hate train is probably just a response to Microsoft's poor PR and policies going into this Gen. It will no doubt dissipate when they respond to it, as they did with the aforementioned Windows 8. 

Ultimately its a long term thing and the victor will only become clear several years down the line. So this console war bandwagon that happens for ever new console release is pointless. It was pointless last time and it will next time. It's just the way it is sadly.

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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by KrAzY on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:11 am

i'm just more annoyed than usualy since (as an artist with lots of art/gamer friends) most of my friends are already apple zombies (keeping in mind I dont have a problem with Macs... which I have to use at work), so my entire social newsfeed is nothing but popular microsoft hating and fishing for likes.

right now? I would choose a PS4 hands down... that doesnt mean microsoft is bad, I enjoyed my xbox over my PS2, and my 360 over the PS3 contact I had, but I dont think that sony is a bad company.

iunno, bandwagoning is irritating to me, which is why I hate confrences like this, why I hate most internet memes (except the few that are actually funny and not just popular)

I work with a lot of people who'se opinions are curiously never different from the opinions of the majority of people around them, and damn do they love to let you know about that fact.
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Re: Microsoft Announcement

Post by CivBase on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:52 am

I don't think the Xbox One thing is near as bad as most people are making it out to be.

The Cons:
A 24-hour check-in is a little rough and the one-hour check in is actually pretty bad.  It wouldn't be a big problem for me, but I'd much rather MS switch to Steam's method of license verification, where the user must be online and logged in for all installations and updates.

MS will only let you trade your Xbox One games in at 'participating retailers', but to me that phrase usually means 'anyone who asks and isn't a prick about it'.  They are trying to get away from GameStop's control, so I doubt they'll let GameStop dominate that market.

The one-time free trade is a little annoying, but it's obviously put in place to prevent abuse of the licensing agreement.  This means you can't loan games unless you give someone access to your account or include them as a 'family' member, which is a bit annoying.

The Kinect is required for the system.  It doesn't have to be on, but it has to be plugged in.  Sort of annoying, but it's not like they mandate that you have to use it - it's just an extension of the console itself now.  Microsoft obviously wants to guarantee it will be an available tool for all Xbox devs so that they don't have to be hesitant about using a feature from it.  As an added bonus for MS, it makes games harder to port.

The PS4 is supposedly 50% faster.  Supposedly.  Based on nothing other than the bare-bones information about the GPU and RAM.  Maybe it is.  Maybe it isn't.  Maybe it's even faster than that.  Who knows?  The 50% mark is completely arbitrary and I'm going to ignore it until we get some real information.

It's more expensive.  As NT kindly pointed out, the PS3 was considerably more expensive than the 360.  The PS3 suffered for a while because, not only was it more expensive, but it also came out long after the 360 had established its place in the market.  Though the Xbox will be cheaper, it will be in stores first so MS still has a huge fighting chance.

The Pros:
Microsoft wants to go digital but they're aware that console gamers aren't entirely ready for that kind of push, so they've gone to the awkward half-way spot instead and I think it's actually kind of cool.

You can still trade and give away your licenses.  Even if it's a bit limited, it's something that Steam and other digital distribution systems do not implement.  I would hope that most people don't do this too often, so the limitations shouldn't be that big of a deal.  Besides, if this allows MS to do deep-discount deals, then the limitations would be completely worth it imo.

They're actually going to let ten accounts have access to your games library.  Just think about that for a second.  That's insane!  Unless any of you have ten brothers and sisters, it means you can let friends and family from far away have access to all of your games (and vice versa), with the option of having two people play that same game at the same time.  You have to admit, that's pretty amazing.  Not to mention anyone on your primary console can also have access to that entire library.


I, personally, much prefer digital as long as I have access to more deep discounts.  My inability to trade or loan games on Steam has never bothered me.  The 24 and 1-hour check-in issues is still very important, though.  If they change that to Steam's method instead, I will probably be getting an Xbox One.  If they don't, I'll lean towards the PS4 and ultimately let the games decide (which, frankly, look better for the Xbox One so far).

My point with all this is not that the Xbox One is better than the PS4.  The PS4 looks like a better machine so far and I'm much more interested in it than I was in the PS3.  I just wanted to point out the positives of the new Xbox that everyone seems to have forgotten.

Ten friends and family?  Come on, that's amazing!

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