Legalization of Marijuana

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by CivBase on Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:54 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
CivBase wrote:
Maybe at first, but after a while it will get worse. You just wait.

Your point is hardly made, as its based on a highly false myth. ASSOCIATION and the fact marijuana is illegal is the "gateway" since to acquire an illegal substance you deal with people that have access to, and the will to commit you to, other illegal substances. Take away this association and it's no longer a problem.
Prehaps you don't understand how this drug works. This drug is weak compared to others. People build up a tollerance to it at a very very fast rate. This means that more and more marijuana is needed each time to create the high effect that is orriginaly achieved. Soon, there is not enough marijuana, but the body has already become physicaly or psychologicaly dependent on the drug. In search of the high, many users turn to stronger, more dangerous drugs. Sure, the drug being illegal already plays a role in it, but it's only part of the reason it's a gateway drug.

Here's a statistic for ya: studies have shown that an individual who uses marijuana is 17 times more likely to use cocain than one who has never used marijuana (including alcoholics and smokers).

KristallNacht wrote:
CivBase wrote:
That gives me oodles of hope when taking into concideration that DUIs are the 2nd leading cause in preventable deaths.

giving people DUIs causes death?
No, but DUI (driving while intoxicated) is the second leading preventable cause of death. The DUI test has nothing to do with it.

KristallNacht wrote:but I think you still missed my point. It being legal won't cause more people to drive under its influence.
No, but you know as well as I that its users will increase once it's legal, meaning that there will be more addicted people driving. More addicted people driving = more DUIs, it's simple math.

KristallNacht wrote:
CivBase wrote:
Yah, and the fact that they do nothing but kill you, don't forget that little tidbit.

Living kills you. Don't forget that. (otherwise read as: what you said was completely obvious and thusly not mentioned in the quoted statements)
Alow me to rephrase that: "they do nothing but kill you faster and add nothing positive"

KristallNacht wrote:
CivBase wrote:
So what? Personaly, I think alcohol should be outlawed, but that ain't gunna happen after it's been legal for so long. It still has absolutely no positive effects. I challenge you to find even one.

Stress release.
Yes, because that's definitely the most effective way to releave stress.
Not to mention the fact that it's a depressant. You'll get that high feeling at first because it increases the relase of dopamine, which causes pleasure. However, the high effect wears off after a short while and the user comes crashing back to earth (this is when the depressant part kicks in). And after extended use the dopamine production comes to a complete hault (even with the drug). This makes the drug a very short-term solution and a long-term problem.

KristallNacht wrote:Social lubrication.
Could you please explain what this is?

KristallNacht wrote:the high effect wears off after a short while
Yup, and reality snaps back into focus, stress and all.

KristallNacht wrote:Both pretty good, among some others.
I'd love to hear some more positive effects.

KristallNacht wrote:My main point of view is either both should be illegal or both legal. Mainly both legal.
The problem is that it's much harder (though more effective in the long run) to make something illegal than to make something legal.

KristallNacht wrote:
CivBase wrote:
So why should we legalize it again? Just seems to make things worse. Just like saying "well, I know I'm already going to die earilier because I'm using marajuana... might as well add smoking and alcoholism to that! Screw my body up real good that way"

Because its BETTER than current legal things.
So because it's not as bad as alcohol, we should legalize it? NT, this is about positive vs negative, not negative vs more negative. The point is, marijuana is negative with no positives. So why should we legalize it?

KristallNacht wrote:Second, its a VERY LARGE business. A legal (ie. regulated) business can be taxed.
You want to give people deadly drugs so you can get taxes? Hell, you may as well go and be one of those smugglers that bring the immigrants over and then murder them.

KristallNacht wrote:Therefore marijuana sales would feed the economy, as well as reduce the amount of money led out of the country on drugs, both in no more mexican weed and in less hardcore drug use.
I don't see how it will reduce hardcore drug use (see above)

KristallNacht wrote:
CivBase wrote:
Oh really? I don't see how something that does the folowing could reduce someone from hurting themselves.

None of those look like they'd increase the chance of someone hurting themselves.
The drug doesn't cause you to hurt you, taking the drug itself hurts you. It also increases their chances of taking worse drugs and impares their judgement and reaction (great to have behind the wheel of the car heading the wrong way down a one-way street).

KristallNacht wrote:Furthermore, this is one of those cases where the science behind it doesn't translate much into the reality of the situation. People that are under the influence of marijuana tend to be very relaxed and chill, as well as very nonconfrontational.
That's because it initialy increases your dopamine levels. This is a temporary solution and we all know how well those have worked in the past.

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by BBJynne on Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:00 pm

CivBase wrote:
Just spent an hour typing a response to NTs post

wtf?

you care to much dude.

since what we say here doesn't change anything, I think you shouldn't take that much time to do this

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by CivBase on Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:06 pm

Didn't intend to spend as much time, but if it's halfway done may as well go all the way. Retyping it was actulay pretty fast since I knew what I was going to say. Besides, I like debates Very Happy

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:37 pm

This is quite interesting...
I just wanna get some input out there.
1.an interesting thing, during the proabition, alcohol sales increased Razz and actually if the proabition had never happened, organized crime wouldnt have occured in such a noticeable amount.
2.i know people who smoke and stuff.bout 16.Tell me its healthy to start smokin weed and cig's at about age 16.
3.Alcohol does have good effects.Moderation is the megical word here.
It thins the blood, causing relief of stress.Its only bad for you when yer porin down shots over and over.
4.and actually, NT is right on the DUI thing.
Maybe at first lots of people will get caught drivin high, but eventually itll become less and less often because you wont wanna drive hi instead of drunk.see my point?

Nt,,, you say drugs cant cause people to hurt themselves?
I would say a car smashing into a tree at roughly 80 miles an hour is considered hurt.

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:45 pm

CivBase wrote:
Prehaps you don't understand how this drug works. This drug is weak compared to others. People build up a tollerance to it at a very very fast rate. This means that more and more marijuana is needed each time to create the high effect that is orriginaly achieved. Soon, there is not enough marijuana, but the body has already become physicaly or psychologicaly dependent on the drug. In search of the high, many users turn to stronger, more dangerous drugs. Sure, the drug being illegal already plays a role in it, but it's only part of the reason it's a gateway drug.

Here's a statistic for ya: studies have shown that an individual who uses marijuana is 17 times more likely to use cocain than one who has never used marijuana (including alcoholics and smokers).

And this is based on ASSOCIATION. Your first paragraph applies to alcoholics and smokers as well. The reason they don't move on is they aren't associating with people with access to the more hardcore stuff. Hence: Illegality and not weed is the gateway.

CivBase wrote:
No, but DUI (driving while intoxicated) is the second leading preventable cause of death. The DUI test has nothing to do with it.

Except a DUI = Driving Under the Influence. DWI = Driving While Intoxicated

civbase wrote:
No, but you know as well as I that its users will increase once it's legal, meaning that there will be more addicted people driving. More addicted people driving = more DUIs, it's simple math.

During the prohibition MORE people drank and MORE people drove drunk and MORE people overdrank. These problems decreased when it was legalized. Marijuana will have a similiar effect. Currently, driving while high is like a "well, I'm already doing something illegal, might as well not let that stop me" ntm Marijuana has effects that would actually REDUCE the willingness to drive, do to paranoia and the lack of wanting to do anything.

CivBase wrote:
Alow me to rephrase that: "they do nothing but kill you faster and add nothing positive"
My point still stands that it is absolutely obvious and unnecessary to state.

CivBase wrote:
Yes, because that's definitely the most effective way to releave stress.
Not to mention the fact that it's a depressant. You'll get that high feeling at first because it increases the relase of dopamine, which causes pleasure. However, the high effect wears off after a short while and the user comes crashing back to earth (this is when the depressant part kicks in). And after extended use the dopamine production comes to a complete hault (even with the drug). This makes the drug a very short-term solution and a long-term problem.
That's hardly true. I find it funny that you're arguing from a textbook PoV and I'm arguing from a real-world PoV.
Does that mean that people that have sex more often will stop having endorphin production?

civbase wrote:
Could you please explain what this is?
A socially based release of one's standard inhibitions.

civbase wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:the high effect wears off after a short while
Yup, and reality snaps back into focus, stress and all.
I didn't even say that.

civbase wrote:
I'd love to hear some more positive effects.
Hang out with some high people, it should become pretty obvious.


CivBase wrote:
So because it's not as bad as alcohol, we should legalize it? NT, this is about positive vs negative, not negative vs more negative. The point is, marijuana is negative with no positives. So why should we legalize it?
It's a naturally generated substance. It's more natural for someone to smoke marijuana than to wear glasses.

civbase wrote:
You want to give people deadly drugs so you can get taxes? Hell, you may as well go and be one of those smugglers that bring the immigrants over and then murder them.
Prove it's deadly. Marijuana can't kill anyone.

civbase wrote:
I don't see how it will reduce hardcore drug use (see above)
aforementioned gateway information

CivBase wrote:
The drug doesn't cause you to hurt you, taking the drug itself hurts you. It also increases their chances of taking worse drugs and impares their judgement and reaction (great to have behind the wheel of the car heading the wrong way down a one-way street).

See above gateway information. Also there are way to ingest marijuana and gets its effect that are completely harmless to the body.

civ wrote:
That's because it initialy increases your dopamine levels. This is a temporary solution and we all know how well those have worked in the past.

Just like sex increases endorphin output. So I guess too much sex increases the amount of pain and stress you receive on a daily basis. Once again, textbook =/= real life.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:47 pm

Don Corleone wrote:
I would say a car smashing into a tree at roughly 80 miles an hour is considered hurt.

maybe so, but marijuana won't (it fact quite the opposite) increase an individuals likelyhood to drive. And if they do, they'll probably obey the laws like they never have sober. Paranoia is a strong thing. I've watched people when they're high. They tend to act like their parents are watching their every move. One I saw became a total buzzkill and was talking everyone out of the things they'd do normally.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by BBJynne on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:49 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
It's a naturally generated substance. It's more natural for someone to smoke marijuana than to wear glasses.

venom is naturally generated

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:51 pm

...NT?
Did u really just say that marijuanna cant kill you?
*thinks it over*
not in the short term i would have to agree.
but in the long term it is deadly and damaging to your body.

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:53 pm

lol Nice one BB

and NT that is a good point.

paranoia is a strong detterent.but what happens when that paranoia enters every day life?

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:55 pm

Don Corleone wrote:...NT?
Did u really just say that marijuanna cant kill you?
*thinks it over*
not in the short term i would have to agree.
but in the long term it is deadly and damaging to your body.

Marijuana can't kill you. EVER.

Smoke can kill you. But burning ANY plant produces the same 200+ deadly chemicals, whether its a tree (Firewood) or just garden variety grass.

Thus the damaging effects of marijuana are far from unique. Furthermore, marijuana does not have to be smoked, its just the fastest acting and most effective way.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:56 pm

Don Corleone wrote:
paranoia is a strong detterent.but what happens when that paranoia enters every day life?

I don't see how it entering everyday life could be considered a bad thing...
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:58 pm

I dare say it can kill you.
maybe not if u use your brain.
and so your saying burning firewood is like burning any other kind of plant?

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:59 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Don Corleone wrote:
paranoia is a strong detterent.but what happens when that paranoia enters every day life?

I don't see how it entering everyday life could be considered a bad thing...

So you dont think having a city full of jittery, nervous people is bad?
or even half.
its not a good thing when someone is paranoid.it makes some people....angry...

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by PiEdude on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:59 pm

BBJynne wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
It's a naturally generated substance. It's more natural for someone to smoke marijuana than to wear glasses.

venom is naturally generated

True, as are many deadly, deadly posions produces in plants.

And how savage, discusting, moraless, violent, souless "life" is growing on several large islands in the Asian Pacific Ocean, a few miles off of China's eastern coast. And strangly and, quite disturbingly, accepted and spread throughout the modern world almost completely unopposed.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by BBJynne on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:00 pm

Don Corleone wrote:I dare say it can kill you.
maybe not if u use your brain.

*manages to make rope out of marijuana and hang self*

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:03 pm

Don Corleone wrote:
and so your saying burning firewood is like burning any other kind of plant?

its produces all the same deadly chemicals.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:04 pm

so your saying that smoking poison ivy is no different than smoking pot?

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:10 pm

Don Corleone wrote:so your saying that smoking poison ivy is no different than smoking pot?

its probably worse.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:11 pm

so you lied when you said they all have the same chemicals or what not?

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by PiEdude on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:11 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Don Corleone wrote:so your saying that smoking poison ivy is no different than smoking pot?

its probably worse.

Of course knowing you, you'll probably try it anyway.
Surprised
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:25 pm

Don Corleone wrote:so you lied when you said they all have the same chemicals or what not?

they all have the same deadly chemicals. I'm assuming the poison in poison ivy wouldn't translate into smoke that well....
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Don Corleone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:28 pm

when you burn poison ivy it gives off poisonous gas .
if you burn wood you get smoke.might not wanna inhale it deeply wither way.but i dare say poison ivy would end badly.

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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:44 pm

My point was it all plants have a huge mass of carcinegens when burned. Marijuana has no additional harmful chemicals.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by Toaster on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:58 pm

they all have the same deadly chemicals. I'm assuming the poison in poison ivy wouldn't translate into smoke that well....

Just to put it out there... when burned, Poison Ivy does become airborne. Inhaling it would fill your lungs with the poison, and if not medically treated, you could very well die a horrific death.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:59 pm

Exactly something I figured.
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Re: Legalization of Marijuana

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